Dear Soccer:
by Humboldt2Torreon on Nov 16, 2009 1:42 PM EST
18 comments
My name is Marginal Fan, I am the guy you need to make Soccer a mainstream sport in the US. Let me start by saying I LOVE watching USMNT games, and I played select soccer until I switched to american football in high school. I have since moved to Mexico and live in Torreon and have become a big Santos Laguna fan. So soccer is growing on me for sure, but let me fill you in on a huge complaint from the marginal fan. Whats with the tie? Here is the deal, I just spent all week getting pumped up for the Santos vs Club America game in Torreon yesterday. End result......1-1 tie. Whats the deal? What harm is there in going to PK's and having a winner. Winner in the PK gets 2 pts, loser in PK gets 1. That way the loser still gets there point for the regulation tie, and we actually have a winner. I know that huge soccer junkies will tear this system apart as not being purist, but lets face it, the purist attitude has not taken pro soccer very far in the States and I really think its time for a change. Just my thoughts, have fun ripping me a new one, but remember Soccer, the marginal fan is the one you need!
Best,
Marginal Fan
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Marginal Fan
MLS for its first several years courted you.
It turned off the purists, and it did not attract the marginals.
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Sounder At Heart
by Sounder At Heart on Nov 16, 2009 3:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I am a fly-fisherman, so I do know a thing or two about the purists! Soccer fans and fly fisherman have to be the most dedicated purists in sports! But my question remains, why cant they go to PK’s during all games, not just the playoffs. I understand not going to OT as it could lead to unnecessary injury and fatigue, but there is no harm with both teams earning a point for going to PK’s and having the one who wins the PK’s get an extra point. Everyone goes home happy and there wasn’t a gosh darn tie!!!
From Humboldt to Torreon Mexico, supporting the A's every night thanks to XM Radio!
by Humboldt2Torreon on Nov 16, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
I am a marginal fan too, I guess (from Alabama at that). I mean, I’ve been watching soccer whenever it comes on since taking a trip to Europe and watching it there in a bar, and I actually really like it, it’s just other than the US national team I’m not sure who to root for. I’m thinking about rooting for Chicago but idk…
Anyway the whole tie thing isn’t really make or break for me.
by Bozeman on Nov 17, 2009 4:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Alabama
I’m in Alabama too. I’m a Fire fan. Do it man do it! I’ve been to a few Fire games. Good times.
by Nico2.0 on Nov 22, 2009 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chicago Fire
I just got FIFA 10 from gamefly and I put my virtual pro on the Chicago Fire, so that has helped me learn players and their relative ability levels, especially for the Fire. Hopefully I’ll be able to go to a game sometime, I think that would be a great experience.
Also I’ve seen your work on RBR, being an Alabama student and fan. It’s good stuff, I just don’t post because most everyone has already said anything I would consider posting.
by Bozeman on Nov 29, 2009 6:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The tie is part of the beautiful game
American sports force a result, while football allows for a team who has played well defensively all game (or have gotten lucky) to get away with a point. On the flip side, if a side dominates all game and then runs into bad luck on the penalties, its even a worse feeling.
Take the NHL, my number one sport. Is the shootout right? No, but its fun entertainment. I wish it wasn’t there, but it is.
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by Rob Luker on Nov 17, 2009 3:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The shootout is stupid too
Its a joke to get 2 points for a shootout win and a win. If your team looses you feel bad for loosing, even though you got a point, if your team wins a shootout, you feel like its a cheap victory.
And where the hell does that third point come from
Win = 2 points vs shoot out win 2 points + tie 1 point = 3 points???
by Cool Dudes on Nov 25, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not our game
The thing that I think really holds back the sport in the US, is that we didn’t invent it, we don’t control it, and we aren’t the best at it.
Each of those cause sports fans in the US to hold back from embracing the sport. I can’t tell you how many times I have heard people complain that Soccer is a foreign sport, despite being played in the US since the late 1800’s (the same time it flurished around the world) and so a lot of sports fans simply don’t understand it.
With the NBA, NHL, and NFL we control the sport and can update the rules as we see fit to match the changing demographics of our sport. The NBA can move the 3 point line and soon FIBA will follow, the NHL can change their rules in an attempt to make their sport more exciting to get back fans after their latest strike and being dropped from major cable TV, and each year the NFL changes their rules to try and increase their scores which they belive is what the fans want. Well in the soccer world the rules are set by a international group FIFA and everyone follows their rules (for the most part) and that means we tend to not be able to americanize the sport too much. Ties are a good thing in regular season play, but that is a story for another day.
I think the most important thing that keeps a lot of American sports fans from embracing soccer is the fact that the US isn’t the best at it. In fact on the global stage we often fall very short. Recently the US has had some real success with the Confederations Cup victory over Spain, taking a lead in the final against Brazil only to lose in the end. Qualifying for the World Cup yet again is good but only by making it out of the group stage will the US show that it has claimed a spot on the world stage. Our best players are rarely seen by American fans as they play in Europe, over half of our World Cup qualifying team played in Europe. So the big names in the US are international players like Beckham, Juan Pablo Angel, GBS, Freddie Ljungberg.
I do believe it is changing, and for a fan who doesn’t know about soccer I would say don’t watch it on TV if you don’t have to get out to a MLS match or USMNT match and see it live first, because a big part of soccer is the atmosphere and the experience of the stadium and fans. Cheering not when prompted by a scoreboard or PA announcement, fans breaking out in songs and chants during the match and the action on the field is non-stop. No TV time outs, just 22 players working hard for 90 minutes. The average field player runs over 5K during a match and often is close to 10K by the end of it. Padding exists in a small shin pad and a cup.
Soccer is a sport of tribes and communities, around the world it isn’t a sport but more a part of life that allows people to suport their local team as it represents them in battle. If you want to know why you should be a fan get a global perspective on the sport and you can start by reading “How Soccer Explains the World” by Franklin Foer.
by denz on Nov 18, 2009 1:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not too long ago...
…ties existed in American football. I hate regular season overtime as it favors certains styles and changes the game too much. In the regular season, if “x” amount of time doesn’t settle it, then that means that teams are probably even. You obviously have to have it in playoffs/championships, but I’d hate to see soccer ditch the tie. It’s even more pointless to dismiss in soccer given the points system.
by Nico2.0 on Nov 22, 2009 6:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ties still exist in American football – it’s just incredibly difficult in the NFL where it is sudden death for any kind of score.
With respect the Marginal Fan, I empathize. I don’t like ties at all. The whole point of a competitive game is to see which team gets the win. And I’m not that much of a marginal fan with respect to soccer (STH for the NYRB, member of FulhamUSA). But as initially mentioned by Sounder at Heart, the system for a shootout/PK end was used, it didn’t last, and was thrown out. And the league has grown since. Which is a shame because cheering/settling for ties isn’t a good feeling after screaming/chanting/singing/noisemaking/grumbling in support of your team for 90 minutes. Let me tell you, with NYRB and Fulham as teams to support, I’m very familiar with the concept.
Vis a vis soccer “making it” the larger problem doesn’t have to do with Americans being the best at it or not being able to control it (though, I’ll admit the sheer pretentiousness surrounding the game doesn’t help) – it’s just that it’s a late comer to a sports market that’s already loaded with options that have been in place for decades, if not over a century.
Even then, MLS is growing as stadiums are being built and filled namely for soccer, it has a national TV deal, and the league is expanding despite a recession in the US. Where MLS and soccer is now isn’t so bad, really.
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by John Fischer on Nov 22, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
PKs are incredibly stupid
that’s why they are only used in tournaments and sigh, the MLS.
by Cool Dudes on Nov 25, 2009 2:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sigh?
Umm only used in MLS during tournaments and playoffs. Listen I love that some marginal fans want a winner and loser in every match but for the fans who respect the game as the rest of the world plays it this would be a horrible move.
Soccer is much more than just another sport around the world and while it is hard to understand here in the US, it embraces culture and community pride around the world. If we can get over our sense of our way is better in everything, and simply understand that each match is part of a larger season and that each season is really part of a larger club history, maybe then we can understand that ties are part of the game and stop thinking everything has to be the way of the American fan.
by denz on Nov 25, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think a tie for the MLS championship is acceptable?
Because that’s what they ended up with.
Saying soccer embraces culture makes no sense. Every single different culture in the world plays the game and the sport certainly does not embrace them all. Its rules are international standards, not designed for any culture.
The reality is MLS uses a playoff system that doesn’t work well with the rules of soccer (ties don’t resolve who advances) because they feel American culture demands it. That being said, 8 teams advancing is stupid, and teams that advance should keep playing until the result is decided. There is no FIFA rule against playing two or three games to determine the champion. Just like in hockey, if they don’t decide the result, they should keep playing until they can. The shootout in the NHL is a circus act and it goes away during the playoffs. The MLS final is a joke anyway in that it is a pipe dream that it is ever going to be anything like a Superbowl, which has an effective system for deciding the game on the field. Might as well make it a real event.
by Cool Dudes on Nov 25, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you ever watched the Champions League?
Or any other major tournament? They do the same thing – PKs if it’s still tied after 120. The days of replaying matches a half dozen times if they kept ending in ties are long gone (the FA Cup used to do that; now it’s limited to one replay which is settled by extra time and PKs if needed).
The infinite overtime rule works for hockey because you can rotate players back in and out and they can rest at least a little bit. (And it’s a higher-scoring game to start with, so needing multiple OTs is rare.) Even if you were to go to sudden death after the first 30 minutes, there’s just no way it could work in soccer with limited subs and no real breaks in the action.
by SpartanDan on Nov 25, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So in a 9 month season
You just couldn’t possibly do anything put end with penalties.
Genius. You mus be an MLS official.
P.S. Penalties are lame in the Champions League, the World Cup, and every else in the world.
They are going to get rid of them in the World Cup, why is US not experimenting to pave the way. I thought this was a country that embraced innovation. Apparently not.
by Cool Dudes on Nov 25, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So in a 9 month season
You just couldn’t possibly do anything put end with penalties.
I don’t think that’s what he’s saying. You could end the way most of the European league do, by having the standings at the end of the season determine the winner, which would probably be the ideal solution.
But once you get into a playoff system, you’re really no longer in a league setting, you’re in a tournament setting, and having a tournament without penalties is a difficult proposition.
Whether or not the MLS should keep its current playoff system (or have any playoffs at all) is a separate issue, but if you’re going to have them I don’t see how you have them without penalties.
by David M. Getz on Nov 27, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes there is no other fucking possibility other than penalties
You are so right. It is impossible to do anything else. The MLS is a really high quality league.
by Cool Dudes on Nov 27, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Find a tournament that does not have penalties after Extra Time
Champions Leagues (all of them) can end on penalities. The World Cup matches after the Group Stages use penalties, the FA Cup can end on penalties. Copa del Rey. Copa Mustang in Colombia. Interliga in Mexica.
The only possibility is to end with a two-leg tie, except that even those have the possibility of penalties.
The Golden Goal is gone around the world, and has been for five years now. It would seem to me your complaint is with FIFA and the IFAB.
I am not a Supporter
I am not a Fan
I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Sounder At Heart on Nov 28, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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