How the brilliance of local rivalries peps up our soccer scene
Also file under: Why MLS must embrace (and not resist!) local derbies
I have been so extremely lucky to get to travel the world to see soccer, sometimes on my dime, sometimes on the company’s.
I’ve walked the tunnels of majestic stadiums, seen the world’s most decorated teams and personally witnessed the emotion, glory and pageantry of it all.
And yet, one of my favorite soccer memories comes from a place that’s not exactly draped in glory. (Well, I suppose there is some glory if you were born and raised in the row houses of working class south London.)
My friends and I take a yearly trip to England, a long weekend where we squeeze in two or three matches. It’s a fast-paced excursion, pretty much all soccer and pubs – with no time for anything that people might know as jet lag. You just power through it and get back to work Tuesday morning.
We’ve hit most of the big stadiums over the years. But it was my second trip to Selhurst Park, the Spartan home of Crystal Palace, where I learned about the grimy passion of the local derby.
I had been to Selhurst once before, but on a very different type trip, one with my girlfriend. She’s a hardy soul and a global traveler, so I wasn’t too worried. Then again, I had never been to this hardscrabble area before. It is a bit … uh … seedy.
We got seats behind the goal and she was one of maybe three women in our grandstand. But the fans around us were warm and welcoming – abundant salty language aside – and the night was simply brilliant. Our new friends, agog that Yanks knew anything about football, much less about their beloved Selhurst Park, weren’t about to let us leave without coming ‘round to their pub after. Good stuff.
Three years later, Crystal Palace met Charlton in a South London derby when both sides were in England’s top flight. Furthermore, both sides languished near the bottom of the table, so this took on the additional tension and drama of a relegation battle. I was with five of my soccer buddies. We found a tout who got us great seats about seven rows up near the middle of the field. To be so close and see, feel and hear the EPL pace was spectacular. But here’s the real memory:
We were quite close to the Charlton supporters, who were literally caged off like some wonders of the San Diego zoo. Rows of seats were strategically left open to create a no-man’s land between the rival fans. And the words going back and forth would make a member of the British Royal Navy blush.
When Dennis Rommedahl broke a scoreless tie with a late game-winner for Charlton – oh, Lordy, it was on! Those goofy wankers were climbing the fences and taunting and giving and getting from the goofy wankers on the other side. Stadium officials announced that Charlton fans would “be held for 30 minutes after the match for their own safety.” Outside the grounds, a bunch of serious faces on horseback, men and women who would surely rather be spending their Sunday evening at home, sat rigid atop their mighty mounts, prepped and ready for anything.
That is a South London derby. Obviously, it’s the same all around the world with these high-profile rivalries: Rangers-Celtic, Milan-Inter, Benfica-Porto, Chivas-Club America, Boca-River Plate and so on.
So, here’s the thing when it comes to these brilliant, if troublesome, rivalries:
Let’s hope MLS does the right thing and reconsiders a rule stipulating that only 150 tickets must be made available to opposing teams.
I would love to see 1,000 tickets set aside in a particular section. Yes, security measures will need to be taken and certain procedures updated, etc. But it will be well worth it … believe me. (Obviously, most MLS matches won’t need anything close to this number. But selected matches certainly will.)
These selected rivalries will crank up the excitement for everyone around the league. I’ve written before and I’ll say it again here: the contentious, passionate Seattle-Vancouver-Portland triangle will take MLS places unseen so far.
Today, the supporters groups at those three places are having their voices heard, asking MLS to help themselves. In a very reasoned and democratic process (it’s Voting Day, after all!) they are banding to persuade MLS to alter its policies.
Let’s hope Major League Soccer is listening, and that the conservative arms who still believe soccer is a “family sport” with no place for adult-beverage shenanigans are muted. Let these rivalries thrive! And this is one great way to do it.
21 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Bravo and one more thought
I think that if we are going to continue this habit of issuing the MLS Cup Championship match to random locations that the league must ensure that at least 1,000 quality tickets be reserved for the fans of the two teams actually playing in the match.
Last year hundreds and hundreds of RSL and LA fans were left to buy tickets from scalpers or Seattle fans reselling theirs or find themselves watching the match from the upper deck where players looked like ants. This year the match will be at Toronto’s BMO field where up to 18,000 tickets will be part of the 2011 TFC season ticket package, meaning that just 3-4,000 will be left for everyone else. This means again that fans of the teams that will actually be competing will like get the worst seats in the stadium or be scattered all over in pockets of 2-3 people. While the vast majority of people attending will have little interest in the match, a lot in the event but little in the match.
I think the solution is one of two things, if you want months and months to plan for things like they do the Super Bowl, find but make sure that the fans of the actual teams that will be competing will be taken care off. Or do the right thing and the team with the best record in the final hosts, and while it requires a bit more work at least then the reward of having interested fans will be a constant.
Timbers fan very excited
Excellent article – I cannot WAIT until next season when the Seattle-Portland Derby gets underway. This will be amazing!
When non-soccer fans watch Seattle-Portland
And see 1k away supporters highly organized and roped off in their own section, it will blow their minds. It will dramatically increase the the profile of MLS.
The 150 away ticket rule is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of. Another example of MLS being stuck in the 90’s marketing mindset. You would expect they would have learned from their past mistakes by now.
Win or lose, we will always be here for you.
MLS regulations
I don’t blame MLS for taking this approach. Taking things slowly and conservatively is how they got the stability to stick around long enough for clubs like Portland, Vancouver and Seattle to join the league. In the past, a low allocation for away tickets has never been a large problem.
But now it’s our responsibility as supporters to prove to them that times have changed and it makes sense for them to be flexible. We’re all more than happy to go along with any security planning, including separate seating and being held after matches, in order to get an allocation that properly reflects the passion in this rivalry. Hopefully Montreal and Toronto will be able to follow suit in 2012.
PGE will sellout - where do 1000 Sounders fans go?
What do you do with the displaced Timbers season ticket holders?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
If you had bothered reaching out to the TA
before writing articles claiming no one would talk to you, you’d know that sections are already being set aside for game day sales only, and these sections would form the core of away supporter seating. As we did in USOC 09 and 10. In a sold out stadium.
I have on multiple occaissions reached out to members of the TA
To assume I did not is a failure on your part, not my own.
As of yesterday I have official contact info for the TA.
But let’s not extend your misinformation. There are not 1000 seats being set aside.
There certainly are not “unlimited” seats being set-aside as you put in your tri-partitie press release.
And if you claim a “core of away” support you are violating the very security measures which will be necessary, which is that away support should be seated en masse.
Will the Timbers also have the beer garden placed directly in front of Away Support like they did for US Open Cup ’09? That worked wonderfully!
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
PGE will not sell out with STHs
There will be more than enough seats available with proper planning. It would not be difficult at all to move STHs to better seats should Seattle or Vancouver require 2-3 sections rather than the 1 (which holds a whole lot more than 150) that is currently being held aside for away supporters.
The beer garden was there for every Timbers match between 2001 and 2010. Don’t think it was some sort of special bait for animals like JJR. It is already gone, as are the dugouts, and the additional 5-6 rows of infield seating meant for baseball. The pitch is moving drastically to the north and west with the entire east wall becoming a new stand completing a U shape (rather than prior J shape with vast swaths of unused baseball space) with the MacClub at the top and a few rows of seats over there.
I see no reason why 1000 Sounder or Whitecap (or any other team) fans couldn’t be accommodated if it was planned ahead. The Timber fans that bought $99 season tix next to the away supporters section would be happy to be moved to more expensive and exotic locales for a couple games a year.
I did not say that PGE will sell-out for STH
I said that I expect the stadium to be sold out. There is a difference.
But I find it extraordinarily naive for current Timbers fans to think that the masses of new MLS Timbers fans would rather have Sounders fans in their stadium than to be in the stadium themselves.
Welcome to the big time. You aren’t going to have space for unlimited Sounders fans to travel. You aren’t going to have room for even the number that traveled to see the minor league Timbers on a weeknight.
When those games are on a Saturday your unlimited concept will result in thousands of Sounders fans traveling to Portland, because there are more people that want to go to Sounders games than the stadium here currently fits. So people will travel in droves down I-5.
Either expansion was the right idea for Portland (and you’ll average well over 20,000 sold per game and not be able to fit the Sounders fans en masse in PGE) or expanding to Portland was a mistake because you won’t sell-out and your tv ratings will suck because Portland doesn’t have a strong history of TV support of MLS.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Our stadium...
PGE (or whatever it will be called next year) is a 20,000 seat stadium that can be expanded to 24,000 for special events. Likely, in the event of a sellout during a Seattle/Vancouver game the FO will open up the remaining 4,000 seats situated above the TA and place Portlanders there while retaining your spot on the southwest side.
I fail to see how you believe there will be such a huge problem here. We’ve successfully fielded about 1000 of you guys at this past years Open Cup match without any problems. It was a sold out game and everything went pretty smoothly.
I honestly don’t understand where you’re coming from in arguing against our stadium capacity, as well as the legitimacy of our team within an debate that shouldn’t even exist.
Fact of the matter is that neither of the three FOs have come out with their plans for next year’s away support so nobody knows how many seats will be set aside. Not you, not me.
P.S. Did you ever stop and think that maybe our TV ratings for MLS have traditionally been weak because as a city we’ve supported our local team far better than most support their MLS team? We’re Timbers fans here. We watch Timbers games. We’re interested in Timbers news.
RCTID
Actually there was a problem in 2009
and those “sell-outs” were much smaller than the expected MLS attendance, and were on weeknights, not weekends. I’m stunned that you would prefer I have tickets to a Sounders game rather than someone from Portland. Pleased, but stunned. I think that’s a bad business idea.
Fact of the matter is that neither of the three FOs have come out with their plans for next year’s away support so nobody knows how many seats will be set aside. Not you, not me
Correct, that’s been my point all along. That the issue is much more complex than those demagoguing the Sounders FO would have one believe.
And MLS TV ratings suck because of your stance right there. Trailblazers fans actually watch other NBA games. Mariners fans actually watch other MLB games. Seahawks fans actually watch other NFL games.
But the elitist attitude of soccer fans in America means that most fans of teams in MLS refuse to watch the other games until the Playoffs.
If you love the game, watch the game.
Oh, and DAaaaave up there was proven a liar in my conversation with Garrett that I just published.
The Timbers FO has never discussed this issue with the TA nor the 107ist.
And I end with asking why in the world you think that I am arguing against the legitmacy of the Timbers as an organization from this debate. Have you actually read the thousands of words I have written on this subject, or do you just feel it is necessary to attack me because other Timbers fans have?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Calm down!
Whoa. Hold on Dave. I’m not attacking anybody. You don’t need to turn this into a battleground.
Those “sell-outs” were smaller because out stadium was smaller, but it still didn’t stop us from leaving some space for some sounders fans to travel down.
Would I prefer some Portlanders sit out during a game to make room for Seattle and Vancouver fans? Yes. I absolutely, 100% LOVE the atmosphere during those games. To me, it’s worth it. Although, as I already mentioned it shouldn’t be an issue given our stadium’s ability to open up from 20,000 to 24,000 seats for special events.
Now, onto the ratings issue.
Your comparison between the Blazers and the Timbers fans is entirely incorrect. There’s no correlation between the two because the Blazers play in the NBA. The Timbers DO NOT play in MLS. Why should Timbers fans watch MLS? It doesn’t affect our team how well LA goes in the play offs, or if Seattle loses to Dallas this or that week. There’s no correlation between the Timbers and the D2 league in America and MLS. Blazers fans, on the other hand, are part of the larger organization of the NBA. Watching other NBA games makes sense in seeing how it will affect the Blazers.
Up until now we Timbers fans have had our own league to watch and monitor, despite it being a pain in the ass. I would watch Vancouver games and Montreal games to see how well those teams were fairing. As a Timbers fan, and somebody who maintains and active social and business life, following two completely separate leagues based around the same sport is honestly too much work and I’d prefer to follow the league my team is currently playing in.
Now, next season, when the Timbers are in MLS I’ll certainly be watching more MLS games than usual, especially given the PNW and west coast rivalries. I’m sure I won’t be alone either.
RCTID
The ratings issue is not just a Portland problem
it is league wide. It is a significant issue. I’m glad you support local soccer, most of America does not. Most of America watche soccer in England on Sat mornings at a higher rate than they do MLS on Sat evenings.
and Geoff, after Seattle and Vancouver Portland is a city I want to succeed more than any other in Soccer. In some realms I root for Portland over Van BC. For some reason Timbers supporters have decided I hate them, despite the fact that I told Roth that I want to at least double the amount of seats available in Seattle compared to those available in Portland.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Since a lot of irrelevant stuff was said in this sub-thread
I wanted to return the argument to something of substance, which was:
If it comes down in PGE to selling a ticket to a Timbers fan or a Sounders fan (and it’s not crazy to think that it would), I could see how one would take the former side. That former group will more often come back, buy gear, watch Timbers games on TV, etc. There is more long-range money in selling Timber tickets to Timbers fans.
'Gentlemen' he said,
'I don't need your organization,
I've shined your shoes,
moved your mountains and marked your cards,
but Eden is burning.
Either get ready for elimination,
or else your heart must have the courage,
for the changing of the guards.'
by Sgc on Nov 6, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
It Sure Looks Like Your Two Groups Communicated
http://www.timbersarmy.org/updates/
Unified Call for MLS Clubs to Reasonably Accommodate Traveling Fans in 2011
Portland, OR., Seattle, WA., Vancouver, B.C. — November 1, 2010
The Timbers Army, Emerald City Supporters, and Vancouver Southsiders have combined forces in order to jointly oppose limiting visiting support in Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland to the 150 tickets stipulated by Major League Soccer. The united supporters groups assert that visiting support adds greatly to the atmosphere of their home stadiums and that limiting the amount of visiting supporters to 150 is an insult to the tradition and history surrounding the Cascadia Rivalry and undermines the growth of Major League Soccer in the Pacific Northwest.
Win or lose, we will always be here for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Nov 3, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
That was linked in Steve's post
and has been emailed to me.
There still has been no official response from the TA to my questions.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Absolutely
The TA and ECS have been in close communication on this issue. It’s unfortunate that Clark is trying to gain notoriety for himself by jumping in, misrepresenting the facts, and making ECS look bad in the process. There are people trying to get things done and there are people who spend all their time trying to point fingers and shift blame. We know which kind of guy Clark is.
I am not a member of the ECS, so associating me with them would again be your mistake.
I actually have never point a finger at the TA as preventing anything from getting done. And, where we don’t know what you’ve been doing, we know exactly what my conversations with Sounders ownership have been.
I have said to them, and shared publically that I want a very large Away Supporters section for the TA and Southsiders.
I have stated publically, and to ownership, that we do not need to look to Europe, but can look to American collegiate sports.
I have not hidden anything, nor have I discovered a single falsehood in my statements.
I’m quite confident we know what kind of guy I am. I’m the guy that led the Supporters Summit last year hosting leaders of all Cascadia SUpporters Groups.
You are a guy hiding behind a fake name throwing out insults.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Portland Timbers
I am glad you have made the jump to MLS. I hope your team is successful off the pitch in terms of support because I care deeply about the MLS being successful. I wish every team could have the support that we have in Seattle because it would help the league in so many ways. If there were more people like Dave Clark out there supporting their clubs the league would be a better place. He is not just a random fan saying the first thing that comes into his head (which I am and its why nobody cares what I think!). Dave has always supported Sounders FC and the MLS as a whole. I am not a member of ECS, I love the atmosphere they bring to games, but often times I think outsiders think they speak for the majority of fans and I don’t think they always do, nor to they pretend to do so. ECS looks at how things effect ECS which makes sense, I have always found Dave to be looking at how things effect all Sounders fans, which is why he has such a large following on his website. Ohh yeah, and your welcome for getting your team promoted.
Wow
These guys just can’t wait for this rivalry.
But it sounds like instead of a chain link fence, just killing the internet connection would work.

by 






