Talking Stuart Holden's injury and bias behind the ref's whistle
by Steve Davis on Mar 4, 2010 2:51 PM EST
38 comments
If it weren’t for bad luck, the
Add poor Stuart Holden to the injury list, which was just starting to get back to a manageable place before the latest addition to the treatment table. Holden has a fracture in his right leg (courtesy of Nigel de Jong’s recklessness) that will keep him out six weeks. The emerging
Speaking of de Jong’s wayward tackle, I’ve got a thought on that. Click forth for said thought:
Turkish referee Cuneyt Cakir deserves a taint punch for his inexplicable, lame inaction on de Jong’s stab, which could easily have been a straight red. It underscores a point that I’ve made before: when the U.S. team wades into the choppy waters of the world’s game, the Americans rarely gain any benefit of the doubt.
It’s been this way for a while. How much of a body did Oguchi Onyewu really put on the
I know it’s not Bob Bradley’s way, but maybe there will be a moment just before matches commence in South Africa where the U.S. manager makes a point of all this to the world’s press. Or, perhaps it’s on U.S. Soccer president Sunil Gulati to take the case to the public, to call out FIFA’s officials for what appears to be some low-level bias that tilts the field slightly toward the big boys. I know this happens all over the world, and that the
It happens at league level, too, where powerful clubs are afforded preferential treatment over the lesser heeled.
It’s been this way forever, don’t you know? The rich Man is always keeping the poor man down!
Sorry to go all “power to the people” on you. I suppose you could even argue that these heavyweights have earned this particular spoil.
Even so, it might not hurt for Bradley or Gulati to force the issue, to run it up the flagpole of public opinion in the World Cup run-up, just to see if it flies.
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"Blame the refs" is getting old
Its time for the US to stop blaming refs and start taking responsibility for the result of their matches. I’m tired of hearing the crybabies.
If the US deserved to win these games, they’d outplay and outscore the other team. Period. If the game is so close that a call or two decides the outcome, they didn’t deserve to win in the first place.
yes.. but...
soccer is often a game of a few moments. An unjustified red can really tip the balance, particularly in a close game. Look at this past game where the Dutch guy acts like Bornstein’s hand was a grenade and hits the deck. If he gets a yellow for embellishment, the game goes a completely different direction. While I’m not ready to jump on the blame the ref bandwagon, I do think a poor call can really impact things. (That being said, US got away with a clear handball in the box)
This is such BS
So a team that loses 2-1 on an injury time controversial PK didn’t deserve a draw? A red card in 31st minute of a scoreless game wouldn’t have affected the outcome?
I don’t think the US is being a crybaby, as you say. It just would be nice to get the benefit of the doubt for once. For the record, I don’t agree with Steve that a US player would have been called for a PK when Frings was not. That said, soccer isn’t like basketball or the NFL, where one call usually doesn’t make a ton of difference. A red card in the 1st half absolutely can change the course of the game, or a yellow for diving instead of a PK like Irrlicht says.
are you kidding me?
@another reader: your logic is atrocious. if the US deserved to win, it would no matter what??? that’s ridiculous. there is no “no matter what.” like others have said, a red card COMPLETELY changes any game, no matter who the teams are. playing a man down is entirely different than playing full strength.
And you say if a game is so close that a few calls affect the outcome, the US didn’t deserve to win in the first place? WHAAAAAAAAT close games are precisely the kinds of games whose results ARE AFFECTED BY A CALL OR TWO. they’re precisely the kinds of games that, when the calls are bad, produce UNDESERVED winners. both teams are losers in these situations because the refs decide the match, not the teams.
wow. just, wow.
by michaeljspinelli on Mar 4, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
I've heard this argument used for other sports
Like in baseball when a ball that hit the foul like is called foul. Baseball players still get more at-bats and more pitches. If a ref makes a bogus penalty call in football, the other team just gets yards and you can still try to stop them.
In soccer, when you’re talking about red cards, how do bounce back. Imagine if the ref inexplicably threw Kobe out of the game in the first quarter and the Lakers had to play 4 on 5 the rest of the game. Should the Lakers be good enough to outplay them anyways? Of course not.
For everything UCLA baseball, visit my UCLA baseball twitter.
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Mar 4, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
read the article
Steve never says anything about the result. He isnt blaming the ref for US results, he is blaming the ref for no justice for injured americans and bogus assumption that every rough american challenge is worthy of a red card. He leads it for the reader to decide the impact of this on the results.
@GeoJock:
dude, we’re responding to the first poster, who says ref calls don’t affect the result. Which is total crap and completely illogical.
by michaeljspinelli on Mar 5, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
When "a call or two" leads directly to a goal in a game where scoring rarely happens
… or worse, leads to playing 3/4 of the game down a man, calls can make a hell of a difference.
In most sports, you’re right, one bad call can and should be overcome. In soccer, that’s far less true.
Ooooh...Take responsability for result...????
Where have you been hiding since World Cup 2002???…..USA ATHLETICS EFFORTS IN 2002 WAS TOTALLY DESTROY by a CORRUPT REFEREE in Korea 2002….two bogus offside calls AGAINST LANDON DONOVAN in the first 20 minutes, a hand ball….The game WAS TOTALLY FIX by a referee….Probably in Europe this is FIND AND DANDY but for American game fixing is the ONE NASTIEST things that could happen in a sport….Even the congress could intervene….
Do you want to talk about Germany 2006….?
Unfortunately for USA we do not have a SOCCER MEDIA able to show to the Americans how nasty FIFA COULD GET ….
Amen
I thought I was the only one noticing this since the 2006 World Cup. The U.S. has been the victim of repeated bogus calls or non calls. While in retrospect the play on Holden should have been a red, I was shocked the ref took his time even showing a yellow.
by Patrick MacDonald on Mar 4, 2010 3:38 PM EST reply actions
Completely agree, Steve
The only thing is Holden is not with Bolton on loan. it was a contract through the end of the season and Owen Coyle said even after his injury, it will be extended through next season.
For everything UCLA baseball, visit my UCLA baseball twitter.
Its not just the officials. I was in Ireland for the 06 WC and watched the Irish media slam the US (as it is fashionable to do there) during and after the Italy match. We were accused of overtackling and playing too rough when the same plays were made against us in other matches. That and the Italians hit the deck when the wind blew in that (and in every match). Yet, the US still got blamed.
r
FWIW, I watched many many games of that tournament, and I found that when watching a game immediately after watching the Italians play I would wince every time two players came close together. 90 minutes of Italians falling all over the place conditioned me to think that someone was going to get hurt every time they almost touched.
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → b a (select) start
No surprises
Listen, no matter how much regime change might have impacted world opinion about the US, we will almost always get the short end of the stick from officials who too often see it as their way of leveling the field for all our sins.
Does it happen everywhere, of course if you don’t think that ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal, and even my Liverpool often get calls their way when they face Blackburn, or Stoke City, well your simply not paying attention. You can go back to the run of late PK’s awarded to LA last year early in the season that almost always got them a draw or win, it happens everywhere. Heck do you think the tackle on Holden was much worse than Beckham’s hack job on Morales in the MLS Cup?
In league play it is about the rich getting richer, but when you play on a national level it is often the “have not’s” trying to get some type of justice against others.
Taint punch
Nicely done, Steve.
Cakir really just seemed incompetent throughout the match, mixing in very soft calls with not punishing hard fouls. He didn’t do anything totally ludicrous, but he made many small and medium-level mistakes. I thought he screwed us over much more often than the Dutch, but we also got a couple breaks. I think it would seem like we were getting the short end of the stick in part because we were having to do so much defending. There were more instances of US players having to make tackles, or go in shoulder-to-shoulder, because our more skilled opponents were playing keep-away with us. That doesn’t excuse Cakir’s apparently below-par ability as an official, but it is at least somewhat involved.
learning to play
It is obvious that players like Jozy Altidore have figured out how to “play” on the world stage. He was just as effective as any of the Dutch at getting the call even when there was less than full contact. Did the ref fall for some bad acting, yes. Jozy noticed and started taking advantage of it. Others on the US team didn’t figure out how to adjust. That is our bad not the referees. Top teams and players figure out now to succeed with whatever ref they are given for the most part.
Regarding tackles and red and yellow cards, it seems to me that Bradley would have learned by now how to be less obvious about showing his cleats when he tackles. De Jong made it hard for the referee to judge that he showed his cleats as he came in. That and his immediate display of “remorse” helped him avoid red. Bradley on the other hand showed his cleats from the start of his tackle. That made the decision easy for the referee.
yes and no
While I agree that the US needs to learn to abide by however a referee is calling a match — even if it includes diving when the ref is clearly going to reward it — I don’t agree that this is “not the referees[’]” bad. Referees have the obligation to call the match according to the rules, which includes not calling fouls that didn’t happen. Likewise, they have the obligation to punish with a red card clearly red-card offenses. Their failure to do so is not the US not “learning to play,” it’s the refs being bad refs.
thats the difference
Refs never see everything and they have to take the evidence they have and draw a conclusion. Its just that every ref draws the conclusion that a rough challenge by an american warrants a red card.
If a ref has a preconceived notion that Americans are reckless hacks and give out cards accordingly, they they should also have a preconceived notion that certain teams dive and should have their cards ready for that.
I hate that line of thinking
If the refs are rewarding diving and we don’t take advantage, that’s their fault, not ours. I would rather lose honorably than win by acting like we got shot every time there’s the slightest touch. (This is the main reason my second-favorite national team is whoever Italy plays next.)
This REF thing is easy to fix....but....
The REFEREE GAME FIXING is easy to tackle….REPLAY….But FIFA knows that the day when replay come into FIFA the days of protection for the ELITE teams will be over….
Taint Punch...awesom
I hate blaming the ref’s, and there have certainly been cases where I think it has hurt the US. I really think it is a widespread problem for FIFA in general. Not just the treatment of star players but the inconsistent way the game is called. I understand the decision to book someone is always going to be somewhat of a judgment call, but more than anything FIFA has to find a way to reign in all the diving.
I have complained about that while watching games with my friends in Europe and they say that I’m just trying to be some macho American tough guy. While I’m not denying their could be cultural reasons for the way I feel, nothing ruins the beautiful game more than having it interrupted every few minutes by someone doing their best interpretation of a fish out of water. Even if you are fouled….don’t spend minutes rolling around in agony only to get up and keep playing.
There has to be more cards for taking a dive. Get up after a foul quickly or leave the field if your injured. If you leave the field for injury their should be a minimum time before the ref lets you back on. I want to see the game, not an audition that you could be Victim #1 in some cheesy horror flick.
The problem with the way things are called now is it rewards acting and punishes players who play honestly and fight through minor contact. Look at the foul that led to the PK. Did Bornstein grab the dutch player? Absolutely. Was it enough of a tug on the arm to send him tumbling like he did? Nope. If he stays on his feet he probably doesn’t get a call. He could have still had a chance for a goal, but he could have also gotten nothing out of it so it’s hard to blame him for going down.
There’s an incentive for players to play for the whistle instead of to it and it cheapens the game in my opinion.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Agreed
Dive = yellow card. It’s in the rules already, if I’m not mistaken, but it’s not enforced nearly often enough. If necessary, look at the tape afterward and issue reprimands and possibly suspensions (for repeated offenses) later. Seems to have worked well enough for the NHL, with penalties if spotted at the time, a public “shame list” for divers, and fines. (I don’t think they went as far as suspensions, but the diving problem was never as bad in the NHL as it is in international soccer. And there’s already precedent for suspensions due to accumulated yellow cards; since diving is a yellow-card offense I don’t think that would be a problem.)
Taint punch is the answer
I think the point is that when it comes to the US, refs seem to a little quicker to pull out red for fouls they might otherwise pull out yellow. De Jong gets the blind eye and Mastroeni does not.
I don’t remember the US players or coaches crying about it much, which it seems is Steve’s point: Gulati or Bradley might be wise to talk about it a bit in advance of WC.
This is so tiring....
Let me be abrupt and frank:
1) It was a penalty. No question, and anyone who thinks otherwise is simply wrong.
2) The reason there was no red card was because the referee was screened from the tackle. The tackle occurred on the other side of the referee, and I believe there was another player coming into his vision, maybe even coming thru it. If he would have been on the other side, he would have seen the leg being bent backwards by the extended cleat. Then he would have produced the red. Was this bad positioning? Not really, as he was running from behind the play. There was no way he could have gotten to the other side. Simply an unfortunate incident.
All of this talk of bias against the Americans gets tiring. You want to know why the Irish press gets onto us after game against Italy? Ideas like this.
Love you Stevo, but this if totally misguided.
Chad the Ref
People are not tired.....They do not know....
Unfortunately….We do not have a reliable soccer MEDIA IN USA…So fans do not have all the fact against game FIXING BY FIFA….But Guys this is old…As old as FIFA and by the way this is part of EUROPE SOCCER CULTURE….
This is a bit whiny
isn’t it? Every team thinks they get the bad breaks, every player has their own bad beat story.
As I said in a previous post: HE DIDN’T GET RED-CARDED AS IT WAS A FRIENDLY. When was the last time you saw a player sent off in a friendly played in Europe? I can’t remember, that’s for certain. The other examples cited were in competitive games: completely different story.
LOL Exactly
Did you watch USA’s friendly on 1/24??? Jimmy Conrad got a mega-soft red card early in the game, basically defeating the whole purpose of playing a friendly b/c 11 vs 10 is not a fair match and not good practice for the players. We go down to 1 striker up top and our possession drops to the 30-40% range.
You can change your job, you can change your wife, you can even change your gender, but you can never change your club.
Win or lose, we will always be here for you.
Fear no foe, wherever we go.
by johnjahafanclub on Mar 5, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
And he didn't
get a “soft red”; he got two yellows. Just clearing that up.
Were it in Europe the chances are he’d have been warned to quit dicking around and that would be it.
bah
How often do you see a player make a studs up slide tackle on a 50/50 ball in a friendly? That rarely happens in any game, much less a friendly, and such a dangerous play is a straight red, period. Particularly when it causes an injury. It’s irrelevant that it occurred a friendly. It was a very dangerous and irresponsible play there’s no defending it or the ref, IMHO.
Not mediocre. Right about average
I've not said anywhere
whether it deserved a red; just pointing out a reason why one wasn’t shown. I wish I hadn’t bothered now…..
Ah, azurri11, how many times
have you taken the whistle into the middle of a field of 22 players? I’m betting that the answer is never. And if my reckoning is correct, you wouldn’t know anything about it. So strange that you speak of something you know nothing about, isn’t it?
Chad the Ref
Why FIFA refuse the use of DIGITAL HD REPLAY....?
How many calls would require REPLAY IN THE FIRST 45 MINUTES….One may be two…? So why FIFA REFUSE TO USE HIGH DEF REPLAY….Because their control will be over….Simple…
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