Seattle Sounders performance; not that bad, I say
by Steve Davis on Apr 23, 2010 11:39 AM EDT
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I just read the comments on Dave Clark’s Sounder At Heart, and I have to say, I’m a little surprised. Not by the level of high anxiety over match officiating. That was expected. And appropriate.
Rather, I’m surprised that so many Sounders fan believe their team played poorly.
Never take performance on the road for granted.
I know you guys are used to seeing a free-flowing, attacking team there. But consider a couple of points from someone at the match:
- Brad Evans and Osvaldo Alonso were freakin’ animals out there. Perhaps that was less than apparent on TV.
- Sigi Schmid’s tactics worked to perfection.
I know that Evans’ and Alonso’s tackling and clever defensive tactical ploys aren't as much fun to talk about. Still, that’s what team sometimes must do on the road. Especially with your best player on the bench. (See my piece at SI.com for a little more on that.)
By the way,
Finally, there’s this: I know everyone is apoplectic over Vaughn’s 93rd minute decision. (I talked to Tyrone Marshall about it after the game. He had an interesting take, indicating that he looked immediately at Vaughn, who was stooping, moving and shuffling, straining to get a better look at things through a tangle of bodies. His point: it was clear: Vaughn didn’t have a good look at what was going on.)
It was a bad call. But in the bigger picture, to this point of quality of your team’s play Thursday, Vaughn did a lot to destroy that, too. I turned to a fellow writer 15 minutes into the match and said, “Here we have two teams who want to attack, but Vaughn is going to ruin this match.” If he calls a couple of those fouls early, maybe has a stern word with one or two players, then everybody understands how the game will be managed on the night. Then, with two teams willing and able to attack, we can all get on with it. And enjoy the heck out of it.
Instead, Vaughn “let’s them play,” as we hear from too many people who miss the point. So a kick here, a grab there, a little bit of the business over here … things escalate necessarily and then we have a match that devolves quickly into what we usually get in MLS. “It’s a physical league.” Yeah. We’ve heard.
So that made things difficult on both teams in terms of playing pretty soccer.
Oh, one more thing. League rules require that teams water the pitch before the match.
So, don’t be too hard on your team. On the road, on an imperfect field, against a team hell-bent for attack (whether it’s good for them or not), with Vaughn swallowing his whistle at every opportunity, minus Ljungberg, I just don’t see that it was such a bad performance for
Success on the road is rarely going to be lovely in form.
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Alonso is a beast
I think Sounders fans do know and appreciate how good he is. We just don’t talk about him much.
by The King of Norway on Apr 23, 2010 12:16 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah he is!
Last year at the start of the season I hadn’t planned on purchasing a Sounders jersey (I knew I’d love the team, but not sure I wanted to drop $100 after paying for season tickets. I also wasn’t sold on the Rave Green, until I was there with the other 33,000 on Opening Night.)
By the time that first game was over, I knew I was buying one that said “¡OSVALDO!” He was everywhere!
Ah Steve...
Look, I know that you love “free flowing” soccer. But come on man, it ain’t basketball. Is Terry Vaghhn the greatest referee on the planet? No. But this is a man’s game. All the kids can get the f#ck out! (Porky’s reference) So what if there is a pull here, a tug there? You cannot give every trifling foul. That too would ruin the game. And he carded George John 6 minutes in. MLS is a rough and tumble league. And it should be. And yes I thought that the penalty was soft. But I haven’t seen a replay yet, so I will reserve judgement. And the Seatlle players were straight asses behaviour wise, especially at the penalty. And Ljunberg would be better if he would stand up and stop complaining.
Chad the Ref
"MLS is a rough and tumble league."
There it is. That’s where you and I will just agree to disagree. You may like Serie A, while I prefer La Liga. It’s just a personal preference. In my opinion, for the good of the league, I wish they’d go more La Liga than Serie A.
by Steve Davis on Apr 23, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I prefer...
the EPL to both of them. And I like MLS just as much. I’m very comfortable with the physical play that we have here in the States, as well as England. I don’t enjoy watching games from Spain and Brazil because they fall over like feathers in the wind, sometimes without anyone within 5 yards.
Chad the Ref
by Chad the Ref on Apr 23, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
A slight contradiction
So Ljunberg goes down in the sequences before the PK on contact from out of position defenders and you’re ok with that. They seemed like legit fouls to me but we can agree to disagree on how much of a contact league this should be. You also say you don’t want every trifling foul called but then you turn around and will reserve judgement on what you admit was a soft foul at best in the box in stoppage time no less from in-position defenders that didn’t even create the contact. No way should that PK be called in a ‘rough and tumble league.’ No way it should be called in any league for that matter.
Ljunberg goes over...
waaaaayyyyyy too easily. He should know by now that this league is much like England where he played. He should be tougher. As for the penalty, I still haven’t seen a replay, so yes, I reserve judgement. But it did look as though it was not a good decision. But looks can be deceiving.
The Laws of the Game say explicitly that trifling fouls that do not affect the flow of the game should not be given, or it will spoil the game for the players and spectators. Interestingly, that is the only place that spectators are mentioned.
Chad the Ref
by Chad the Ref on Apr 23, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing says 'trifling'
Like getting run over from behind and losing the ball
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
IMO
I feel like our guys, especially Freddie and Fredy, will draw contact that may not be enough to knock you over but should still be a foul and just draw attention to the infraction by going to ground. Unfortunately people see this as flat out diving. I rarely see our guys go down without at least drawing some illegal contact. Just like in basketball with charging fouls, do the players need to fall over backwards? No, but it draws attention to the foul.
This isn't basketball...
It takes much more than a basketball foul for the whistle to go in this, or any other, league. And I include Brazil and Spain in that.
Chad the Ref
by Chad the Ref on Apr 26, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually some of the calls are quite similar
There are “over-the-back” calls on central defenders jumping on forwards backs in just about every game in every league. There are frequently “hand checks” where a player grabs a player who has beat him and, in other leagues, these are almost always a caution.
Some officials may take a slightly more liberal view in certain situations, but the complete disregard for these “hand checks” and other clutching that goes on in MLS is a problem that affects the quality of play as well as leads to red cards and PKs at the international level. Conrad and Bornstein anyone?
I agree with the fans
Being from Detroit (now Traverse City), I have no home team and so have chosen Seattle as my team for the year (let’s face it, what they have done there is amazing).
In watching the game, I thought Seattle looked very sloppy compared to their usual self. Something definitely seemed off yesterday, as things were just a mess all around. I usually really enjoy watching their passing game, but it just did not look pretty yesterday what-so-ever. I couldn’t quite pick out what was wrong exactly, but the flow never really seemed to pick up. Perhaps it was on the referee, but either way, it just didn’t seem to happen. I won’t even go into my thoughts on that second PK, as there may be children reading this post.
Anyways, a tie on the road is a good thing, so I’ll agree that they did enough. Heck, that tie should have probably been a win. But, as far as how Seattle usually play, that game looked a mess.
your tactical analysis articles...
…represent your best stuff, IMHO. Another tactical-based article of yours on the old MLS site is what brought me to your blog in the first place. Need more tactical!
Regarding Alonso. He has been our best and most consistent player this season. I think a vast majority of Sounders’ supporters would acknowledge that.
seattle was also young
taking out freddie and noonan also makes Seattle very young up top, and it showed. Here’s the ages of the starting 11:
—22—29—
22—24—25—22
29—35—25—27
And the 29 year old up top was Levesque, who while older isn’t an experienced MLS player. Anyway, I just thought that it was a young team, and it showed. That they still played well, was good. The first 15 minutes were rough, but after that, it was a fairly even match.
I thought Freddie didn’t adjust when he came in… The game was called loose all night, and while I understand he was wanting to kill the game, he’s got the experience to know that he might have to adjust his game to the way the game is being called. He and noonan both spent alot of time trying to draw calls, and it would only end with a lost possesion. Even with that, when he came on it was a dramatic difference. He’s a force possing the ball for the sounders.
That isn't THAT young
I would only consider 3 of those players young (22). One is old (35) and I would say the others are about the age you want your players to be.
by the12thman11 on Apr 23, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not a knowledgeable soccer fan by any means.
I’ve been slowly drawn into the game through the Sounders success (and accompanying mania in Seattle) and my girlfriend’s younger sister, who plays.
So I tend to take fans who have followed the game for years at their word when they say the Sounders played sloppy. The fact that you offer a different take is nice to know. It gives me two perspectives. Thanks for this, Steve. It’s educational, if nothing else.
impressions
-Watching from the stands, it seemed like a very physical game last night. Even more than a usual MLS physical game.
-The ref handed out quite a few cards, but really didn’t have very good control of the game.
-Maybe I haven’t watched Seattle enough, but I was dissapointed with how much complaining they did. It wasn’t just the final PK; they were grousing the whole time. That the ref allowed this also had to affect his control of the game.
- The first Seattle goal was due to Zach Loyd getting caught forward. Guess that is an example of Steve’s comment about Dallas going forward too much
- Or was it an example of Loyd playing on defense for the first time?
- Thanks for the insight on what Seattle was doing, Steve. Like you say, it wasn’t pretty, but it worked.
- Incredible second goal by Seattle.
- I remember a game shortly after Dallas got Pierce last year. They got ahead and then shut the game down. I was very hopeful. Now, I know that it was an aberation.
Steve
Were you there watching? After the second PK, the camera stopped at a group, and there was a guy right in the center of the screen that looked exactly like you. I was like hey! I quasi-know but not really know that guy via his blog!
ahem ..
uh … press box. sorry. don’t mean to ‘big-time’ anyone. but you asked.
by Steve Davis on Apr 28, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Spot on, Steve
This “rough and tumble” nonsense is why our league is so painful to watch at times. And the “allowing them to play” is the direct reason for the increase in players exaggerating contact…if they don’t, there might not be a foul called until someone lost a limb.
I appreciate physical play as much as anyone. As a former defensive mid, nothing makes me happier than seeing a great strong shoulder charge or clean sliding tackle. But, grabbing and shirt-tugging to ruin an offensive sequence should be whistled and cards given for persistent infringement if necessary.
It ruins the fan’s experience by preventing the fluid, attacking play and number of goals scored.
That and the random human pinball that a lot of matches devolve into
That includes a lot of Sounders matches, unfortunately. Generally speaking, MLS players have atrocious passing and first touch, which makes a flowing game nigh well impossible a lot of the time.
I'm surprised this doesn't get more focus
In high school my coach always pressed the first touch and it worked fairly well for us. Though to be honest I get the feeling in high school it was more to keep us from lingering on the ball too long. I can’t remember a single practice where more then 3 touches was allowed.
I thought this after the RSL match, too, but
the silver lining is the finishing. I’m pretty sure the Sounders wouldn’t have been near to getting 2 goals in this match last season. Zakuani would have tapped that shot into Sala’s chest instead of banging it home. The team had 4 good chances to score (I wouldn’t even count Montero’s brilliant goal as normally a good chance to score) and put 2 of them away. That’s definitely better than last season.
Wow
So I guess none of the Sounders fans realize they have one of the nastiest players in the league in their midfield Alonso, I love the guys grit and passion but you have to ask? Is it that he is going hard for every 50-50 ball that he thinks he can make a play on, or is he dirty? I believe the first is the case and just like RSL’s Kyle Beckerman, and many others. Nobody likes it when their players get fouled hard but few complain when guys on their team are the ones doing the fouling.
Overall I agree that Seattle’s performance against FC Dallas wasn’t that bad, in fact in most matches (I won’t comment on the Sunday match) they have looked as many of us expected them to, solid and ready to be a top 5-6 team in the league.
