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Around SBN: Will Rhymes 'Fine' After Being Hit By Pitch And Fainting

An open letter to England: We're breaking up

No sense begging, England. We're done.

Dear, England

I think it's time we had a chat. Yes, I'm afraid we need to have a little "relationship talk." Alas, these conversations are never pleasant.

We’re breaking up with you, England. We’ve had enough. The magic is just gone.

You were the first soccer love. All those years ago, there you were, showing us the way in those little shorts and big, choppy kicks forward. Yes, it was insipid Route One football, and yes you were something less than elegant on the muddy pitches. But we learned so much watching the giants of the venerable English game. We learned about the passion from the terraces and all the old school soccer terms from voices of the ages. We even feared and loathed the hooligans together, all from the 60-minute mash-up matches shown across the pond here on Public TV – God bless Mario Machado and All-Star Soccer.   

That was before the money-motivated Premier League, when things may have started going south. You got "class," like Sly Stallone in Rocky II – but you never learned to wear it well. And now, I've about had it with English self-importance, your sense of entitlement.

The WAGs stroke your egos, the agents stack your wallets and David Beckham makes you look pretty – but where is the payoff, man?

Your players are overpaid and arrogant. Ashley Cole once had a jolly good go at his former club for insulting him with a contract offer of about £55,000 a week. Frankly, I have no idea what that means in US green, but I’m sure it’s a lot!

 

Star-divide

How about those headlines last December? Remember the draw – the one that landed so softly for you? Easy passage into the second round and all? How’s that working out for you?

Your World Cup team is a mess! People have passed kidney stones with more grace than you are passing the ball right now. But it’s more than the South African shutdown.

It’s not even just your senior team. In the business, all sorts of stories of unattractive efforts of self-importance have been circulating.  I’ve heard reports of Under-20 tourneys and even Women’s World Cups where the English contingent spends weeks "big-timing" everyone.  It’s not the people, per se, it's the collective mentality. "We're better than you. We invented the game. We are the F.A. … Screw you!"

Now, you’ve become of a caricature of what you think you are. For the love of Bobby Charlton, you’ve got David Beckham sitting on your bench. Why? That’s just goofy. He’s no coach … he’s said so himself in the past.

What about Wayne Rooney? He’s stomped on more balls than he’s kicked in at a World Cup.  Ask Ricardo Carvalho, whose very manhood was once on the business end of some very naughty stuff from lil’ Wayne.

Now Rooney is all PO'ed, lashing out at supporters. Yo, Wayne. It's a long way over here. These fans didn’t get their way paid. They don't have the myriad support elements that you enjoy. By the way, what time is your message this afternoon?

And what about your coach? An Italian, for pity’s sake! Fabio, you’re getting $10 million a year! That’s a lot of fast cars, gizmos and $5,000 glasses. That’s like Johnny Depp money. And the best you can do is a pair of draws against nations that didn’t invent the game?

And let’s face it, England, you've let yourself go a little. It happens sometimes in these relationships. Someone gets complacent, gets a little flabby around the middle and wears their, uh, "comfortable," clothes a little too often around the house. Even your goalkeeping isn’t what it used to be.

Aren’t you the land that where Gordon Banks, Peter Shilton and David Seaman once stood sentinel for extended periods? (Banks and Shilton were class. Seaman got the job done all right, even if was rockin’ that pro wrestler cut that made everyone so uncomfortable.)

Now, the best you can give us is a clumsy combo Robert "Butterfingers" Green-David "Calamity" James combo?

England, I love you. But you're perennially over-hyped and over-valued. I've had it with you.  Just go away for now. We'll see you when the Premier League starts up again late this summer.

Alas, this is it England. We’re moving on. We’re "getting younger at that position," as the saying goes. There are much sexier options out there, and we deserve to be happy. If you see me winking at Spain or Holland, do try not to be too hurt.

You’ll find another. But you must do better. Get yourself together! Shape up!  Get a coach who doesn’t look like Mr. Magoo and isn’t in denial about his team.

It’s been real, England … even if it wasn’t always real fun.

Cheerio, then, guv’nuhs.

Steve

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I believe it is Barney Ronay

who on the Guardian podcasts has been saying that England don’t produce good coaching, good young players with technique, and good teams, so why should they win anything? He said it would be bad for soccer if they won the World Cup.

by Ted Harwood on Jun 21, 2010 12:05 PM EDT reply actions  

His argument

also mentioned pampered players, top-heavy leagues and too much money, so one would assume he doesn’t want Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal or France to win it either.

That leaves Argentina and Brazil, chock-full of players still on anything under £120k a week, if you can imagine, earning their living roaming the streets of foreign climes, returning at night to their tiny shelters under railway bridges, shopping trolleys and the Alps, some as lowly and cramped as Buckingham Palace, poor lambs.

It was a daft and illogical pop at the team, but then he’s paid to write funnies so shouldn’t be pored over nor quoted in arguments.

by rudi on Jun 21, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

Although I think one shouldn’t throw out the baby with the bathwater; does England’s setup, as a whole, need improvement? I don’t know that it does, but Ronay’s exaggeration doesn’t convince me that it’s necessarily untrue…

by Ted Harwood on Jun 21, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

4-4-2 is quite past it, as Zonal marking has pointed out repeatedly

It’s a situational formation, not a tactical bedrock

"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair

by Londonjoe on Jun 22, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dammit, it's what we won '66 with

nothing wrong with it.
/ignores 44 years of failure

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heskey is great.

if you play 3-2-5-1, or the Christmas tree, which would actually suit the personell, or hell, 3-4-3 with Johnson playing winger instead of “fullback who doesn’t quite understand the ‘back’ part” (tm, English FA)

"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair

by Londonjoe on Jun 22, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think 4-3-3 is what's needed actually

Lampard, Barry and Carrick in the midfield, Lennon, Rooney and Cole up front.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carrick and Barry would be perfect for the 4-2-3-1

As central holders- I don’t like Carrick on the wing, modern football is too dependent on the wings to create goals. I would love to see someone trot out a 3-2-5 formation (my youth team’s formation, more a 3-2-3-2), but maybe not for England (who do have a surfeit of attacking players.

"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair

by Londonjoe on Jun 22, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think

Carrick has ever played on either wing, ever ever.

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

in the aforementioned 4-3-3 he'd have to play there

though Lampard or Barry wouldn’t be that great either. That middle three have to be spread pretty wide most of the time, and the Wing backs actually run through beween the wings and the central players (see Maicon’s run against North Korea, for example) The 4-3-3 might be better with Lampard or Gerrard lying deep in that support striker role. I’ll be honest, I’m not sure I like Glen Johnson as a player. Defensive liability, more prone to attack, and not a great positional player. Lacks the pace to play on the wing, but might fit into the 4-3-2-1 “christmas tree” as a defensive wing midfielder.

"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair

by Londonjoe on Jun 22, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

The first 3

in a 4-3-3, should England employ it, wouldn’t send any of those players to the wing. It’d actually be a 1-2 or, even, a 2-1 leaving room for the FBs to push forward and the top 3 to fill the wings when defending as a team.

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

This post

is pure gold. Thank you Steve for calling it like it is.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 21, 2010 12:21 PM EDT reply actions  


It’s gold, Jerry Steve.

Seriously, though… nicely done.

by vineyarddawg on Jun 21, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thats fine

we don’t want your crap commentating and rubbish league.
Good luck trying to get with some other country, we’re the only one at your level.

by WCJkhd on Jun 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Indeed;

at least we care(d). Try hitching up with Spain – they have fans who’d be right at home in Alabama…

by rudi on Jun 21, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can really see the common American

appreciating the flopping of Xavi and Sergio Busquets.

by WCJkhd on Jun 21, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you're missing the point

and he’s not the only commentator out there saying this. You can’t put a bunch of superstar primadonnas together on a team and think they’re going to work. Your team does not work. Look at the results. Look at the poor play. I don’t think this should be a surprise to anyone.

Rooney getting his panties in a wad was the icing on the cake. So sorry Mr. Rooney that your fans hurt your feelings. Maybe you and the rest of the team should perform.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 21, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah they're currently a bit crap.

If that was reason to abandon a team the MLS would play to empty stadiums.

As I mentioned elsewhere, it seems a very easy time to stick the boot in; very dignified, very cool.

by rudi on Jun 21, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I doubt Steve is truly breaking up with English soccer

I for sure won’t. But I think he’s poking at the league a bit for the culture they’ve created. And the media over there. I saw the EASY cover for the WC draw. I read the bloggers, analysts, and newscasters talking of England invented football and this and that. I think the world is just surprised, the way some of the players have handled it is less than graceful, and now England is getting the backlash for being so cocky. No worries. We know you guys are capable of much more.

And Capello is just an easy target. He looks like gay terminator.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 21, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm

The EASY headline was from the Sun. I’m sure you’re as au fait with the “news” arms of Mr Murdoch (he’s an American citizen now, after all…). The Sun’s a bottom-feeder; jingoistic, lowest common denominator rag. You think that headline was bad? Witness “GOTCHA” when our navy sank an Argentinian ship illegally, the coverage of the Hillsborough disaster leading to its circulation in Merseyside collapsing overnight and so on and so forth. Just because we “invented” the game (hmm) doen’t mean teh media isn’t largely made up of rent-a-gobs all jostling to be the most outspoken. I know you know what I mean: I watch a ton of American Football and baseball footage and there’s always the one guy in the studio whos job appears to be to represent the verbose, crass arsehole that always seems to sit two rows behind me at the game.

I’m tired of repeating myself here, but I don’t know anyone who thought the group would be easy. We’re an average team playing an unfamiliar system in a competition we rarely shine in, but it’s easy to crow when things are going well; it’s when the wheels are coming off when it’s time to dig in and there’s little less dignified than revelling, gloating, in the tribulations of other teams. I appreciate it’s an American forum etc but I’d react the same were the situation reversed on the two English football forums I visit. It’s just deeply, deeply uncool, frankly.

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 4:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Please

Irrlicht posted basically exactly what I was going to say down below. Don’t want to steal his credit for the excellent post. I bet you 99% of brits saw that headline and agreed. Maybe you’re one of that 1%, who knows. But don’t tell me for a second it’s the media that makes all this stuff up and that the citizens of England are some kind of media rebels that really know what’s up.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 22, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Your mangling

of Brits and the English tells me all I need to know about your knowledge of our country.

“If you’ve no idea”, my mother likes to say," why don’t you try shutting the fuck up?"

The Irish have a wonderfully pithy way of getting to the heart of a problem, don’t they…?

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't believe your country and ours are very different

Yes we have our stereotypical media just as you have yours. The only thing that gets across the water as you mention below are the Suns and the Bill O’Reillys and the Glen Becks. We have our same 99% who believe the tabloid press. And then there’s the 1% that really “get it”. But I won’t go on saying that the majority of the US sees some equivalent of your EASY cover on one of our mags and even gives it a second thought. Really now – think of the majority. Now think of yourself, who are sharp/educated enough to have a sports debate on websites with people. Just that act alone instantly puts you atop the rest, because the rest look at an EASY cover and say, “yeah, fuckin’ easy is right.”

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 22, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

So

why come on said forums and defend (or use as a weapon) the actions and words of cretins?

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure I get your question

I’ll take a stab at answering. I believe this whole thread is blown out of proportion. First, Steve isn’t breaking up with English soccer. It was almost entirely satirical, with a hint of truth.

Now, not speaking for anyone but myself, I as an American, look to England as the model for football and hold your league in high regard. So when I or I presume other Americans express extreme disappointment, it’s because we are genuinely disappointed. This whole deal we’ve got going in here is because some of you folks took it the wrong way and now we’re going in this pointless circle.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 22, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

If you look to the English national team as a model of football

you’ve got the wrong end of the stick.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

You take

Team England as “the model for football”?

Christ on a moped, you really need to step back. We’ve not been doing that for decades now.

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

No

I was talking about the Premier League as the model. I’m being more broad here.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 22, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heh heh

Again, model for football? Bloody hell.

And if you do believe it’s the model for football then it’s a bit rich to turn on the players for being over-paid, out of touch, over-indulged man-babies as it’s the creation of the EPL that has directly led to this, both here and those following the model abroad.

Nowhere in the world was the failure of English teams to reach the final rounds of the Champions’ League more celebrated than here in England.

You want league to show how it coukd be done? How a league could run its clubs, treat its fans and offer a modicum of excitement? Go German, my friend; go German…

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Premier League

is the most prestigious, glamorous league there is. It’s like the NFL here. Everybody is rockstar status. It’s hard not to hold it to such a high standard. And, it’s entertaining. There’s the race for the top 3, there’s the midde-of-the-pack race for the last CL spot, the bottom barrel fight against relegation…it’s everything we don’t have here.

I don’t think it’s rich to turn on players for being man-babies. It happens here in MLB and NFL. Doesn’t mean we don’t enjoy the leagues and aren’t fans of the teams. It’s just part of the game.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 22, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but it's also unsustainable

I mean, out of 20 clubs last year, at least 5-7 had serious financial problems.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

Admittedly, that piece is still a new thing for me. I know Newcastle had their issues prior, but I was shocked to see the problems that rocked the league last season.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 22, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

the signs were there

Liverpool and United had bankloans, West Ham were owned by the Icelandic person and Redknapp left Pompey.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've only just begun to get into the financial side of things

After watching MLS teams seemingly teeter on bankruptcy, the failures of a several USL/USSF teamsin recent years, and the glaring Pompey collapse. It’s like a whole other world data and stuff to follow.

BTW, my apologies on behalf of Mr Glazer.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 22, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I don't mind

I’m an Arsenal supporter, so to see United spend a couple of years not winning things would be nice.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the spirt of Sir Alex

Typical Germans.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Sun

has a circulation of 340,000 in a population of about 70 million. If that’s 99% then I’d suggest your math(s) needs some work…

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't mean circulation

I mean that the headline is made, and then every network picks it up. We had flashes of it over here on our networks, which was surprising considering the lack of coverage even the world cup gets.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 22, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well duh.

Networks are hardly going to pick up on the majority well-reasoned approaches are they?

I kind of thought that’s why forums such as this existed, to bypass the knee-jerk reporting, the search for the polemic, the flag-waving bullshit that we used to have as our only indication of how we were perceived and received overseas.

Turns out it can bleed anywhere if you spend enough time drinking cheap beer with your buddies in the press corps. “Hey, Chuck, check this out. I’m gonna wind up those Limeys!”

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

You said my math needed work

and I clarified why I said how the hypothetical 99% saw it and agreed without a second thought

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 22, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

If you live

in a country where 99% of your fellows agree with the lowest tab-journalism than I genuinely pity you. More reason not to use such idiocy in an argument, no?

I happen to believe (based on no more than those I’ve met, those I correspond with and everything the country offers) that your opinion on your fellow countrymen is a cruel underestimation.

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

ugh

what I am trying to say is not translating apparently. I’m not claiming that 99% of Americans or anyone else believe tabloid journalism. I’m saying, in the height of World Cup media build-up, big headlines come out. Big claims are made. Once they catch fire and spread, it’s like a big herd mentality. It happens everywhere.

Whether you think it’s cruel or not, I guarantee you if US had been drawn with bottom-barrel countries, we would’ve had the same exact thing here. And 99% of the viewers would agree.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 22, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

And, as I keep repeating,

why is that a reason to then drag such moronic opinion onto here, to bolster your argument?

If you agree such knuckle-headed jingoism is wrong, don’t repeat such wrongness on here as an excuse to attack. You think it’s just idiots thinking nothing, I think it’s idiots thinking nothing. Best just ignore it as the work of idiots then, surely? Don’t bring it up as a straw man to have a pop at.

I’m not in the “top” 1% of the (any!) country, yet I’ve not met a single person who thought the US would be easy or that England were/are anything other than an average team. If we’d won and cocks came on here to gloat I’d be at your shoulder chasing them off. Tjis whole article smacks of gloating at a side just when they’re at their lowest ebb. I’m genuinely disgusted by it (and I appreciate how knee-jerk that sounds, but this guy was recommended to me as someone who didn’t make sweeping neanderthal statements).

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not bringing that argument in

I’m saying how the media in both countries has shaped what’s to come. I’m not as “in” on what is legit media in England, but the things we see here further propagate those fire-storming headlines. Maybe not to as dramatic an effect, but they certainly don’t say “ignore the tabloids, we’re only a middle-road team this go around.” BBC comes to mind, but only because they’re the biggest of them that show over here.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 22, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

uh, sensationalist headlines?

No duh every network (well just Sky Sports, coincidentally owned by Mr Murdoch) will pick it up.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fine, take that opinion

From now on, all Americans believe Barack Obama is Adolf Hitler.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the fans' anger is about their perception of the effort as much as it's about results

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jun 21, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah we are crap

And you know what’s sad about that: the US could only score a gifted goal against a defence with Jamie Donkey Carragher in it.

by WCJkhd on Jun 21, 2010 7:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

ugh

this is what you’ve been reduced to? Insults back at the US team? You should go cuddle with Rooney and pick up the pieces.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 21, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, if Mr Davis insulted the England team

as he did, I see no problem why the above poster can’t criticize the US team.
It’s only fair, right?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 21, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree

Steve is stating the obvious. This guy is offended and has resorted to bashing the US team, which was never part of the conversation. If he had shot back saying, “great point Steve, but you’re missing the whole part about how the US had to fight back from being down 2-0 on lowly Slovenia” it would be different. Rather, he took the easy road and said the US was “gifted” a goal, as if England was making us their bitch on the field or something and had a little slipup.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 22, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was

a gift though, wasn’t it?

Just saying like…

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 4:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

For sure

it was a gift. But his tone insinuated that was the only reason we tied. I believe US would have scored in some other way had that one not gone in.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 22, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

And I

believe Santa would exist if my parents didn’t insist on buying me presents.

That’s no reason for me to have a pop at my folks, right…?

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, because Green had to make so many saves, right?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

If you don’t understand that the score dictates the aggression of the teams, then you’re not much of a footie fan, are you?
Play that game with the same lineups, energy, and tactics and you’d probably see England win 3, US win 2, and 5 draws. Your goal was due to a mental error, too, after all. Both teams had chances, possession was pretty even. If the US had kept pushing, and think they would have gotten the goal anyway. The US had a positive mindset, while England’s negativity grew as the game progressed.
But I will admit I’m biased.

by fennsk1 on Jun 22, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

"England's Negativity Grew as the game progressed"

Which is why England started playing well right before the US scored and played well in the second half?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

But this post isn't about the US team's greatness or lack thereof.

It’s about how England is underperforming again.

After all, we’re not supposed to be good at this. England is.

Longest Atlanta Falcons winning-seasons streak: 2008 - current
The Falcoholic · Blog · Twitter

by Jason Kirk on Jun 21, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

The US is ranked 14th in the world

there really aren’t any excuses anymore, they should be making the round of 16. England’s been punching above their weight since 1990.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 21, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

In other words ...

You cannot build a team like it’s a fantasy team and expect it to work. The ‘02 Worlds/’04 Olympics USA basketball team should be proof of that. (Or, for that matter, the entire Isiah Thomas-era Knicks.)

by SpartanDan on Jun 22, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Emile Heskr=ey

would never feature in a “fantasy team”. Hell, he shouldn’t feature in Fantasy Island’s team and they only have 2 regular players to pick from!

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

we don’t want your crap commentating

Even though American TV’s commentators for the World Cup are all British. Including Martin “Premier League Commentator of the Decade” Tyler.

"My face is my mask."

by Jake Shapiro on Jun 21, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah

the sound of rats leaving a listing ship. I have a poorly dog; you couldn’t spare 5 minutes to nip over and kick it for me, could you?

Would you like your two best players back too? I’m sure they’re super-keen to play Dallas next season…

by rudi on Jun 21, 2010 1:17 PM EDT reply actions  

First round isn't over yet

You’re setting yourself up to eat your words, Steve.

by PeterJH on Jun 21, 2010 6:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I’m sure English soccer will manage to survive regardless.

Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.

by oc phil on Jun 22, 2010 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

And good thing

the US doesn’t have a top flight league for it’s top players

by PeterJH on Jun 22, 2010 9:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

And

I’m sure this forum will benefit from Steve not wetting his pants with excitement every time a player gets linked with the EPL.

Come kick off at the Community Shield we’ll miss you all, honest guv…

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I mean if he's "Breaking Up with England"

then the Premier League is out as well. Not that we care, if it means less uninformed people on Fox Football Fone In.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

"Fewer"

you ill-grammared oaf!! :-)

Sorry, been ages since I got to have a pop at a Gooner. The off-season’s wearing thin now………….

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't worry

What’s it been 16 years since you beat us at Highbury/The Grove?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Closing it

means it’ll be tough to break that run… :-)

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Grove is the Emirates

I refuse to call it “The Emirates”

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, soz.

I’m used to calling it “The Abbey” due to its vow of silence. ;-)

We need to save this till next season, sir. See you on “the other place” – I’d no idea you were to be found round here too…

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I saw the headline

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

i am enjoying the impolsion of the french and english press over their teams if this was america. no one would really care at all

Mike Green in regular season- Norris Canadiate. Mike Green in Playoffs- Nowhere to be found

by Lancers25 on Jun 22, 2010 12:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Well obviously.

There’s a fairly straightforward reason for that…

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 4:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just cos we ruin one little bit of coast and toast a few turtles

When did this love affair happen?

From the country that has the patent in jingoistic ludicrous self belief, why the hell aren’t you supporting your own team.

And if you want to have an affair, don’t bag the horrid fat biffer* that once looked vaguely attractive at her own party 40 years ago.

Pick the sexy new thing that is teasing you lifting her billowing skirt up a little and showing her maracas, or the one with the shaven haven and legs to die for.

Basically, ignore the press, they’re idiots, especially the British ones. But they get paid to be.

*I apologise for the tautology, as we all know that a biffer is in fact a fat minger.

by oohrogerpalmer on Jun 22, 2010 6:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Strange Blog

Shilton was always prone to a gaff or two. For a start he should have ended that little Argentinian coke head. Seaman was always capable of a fluff too. It’s the nature of the beast. Mistakes by keepers cost goals almost everytime, so they get noticed. If the ball runs under a strikers foot, it’s means nothing.

And what with this ‘The country that invented the game’ nonsense?
A scotsman invented the telephone, but they are not considered the cradle of allthing telecommunicative? Germany invented the Hamburger, but they are’t considered the junk food capital of the world – that dubious honour lies elsewhere.

Get over yourself.

by oohrogerpalmer on Jun 22, 2010 6:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Deep Blue

Imagine how embarrassed the Chinese were when the ruskies and Yanks overtook them at Chess.

On the other hand they got their own back by owning your ass’s.

by oohrogerpalmer on Jun 22, 2010 7:28 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Open letter to England

Dear Mr Davis,

While the news that your ‘relationship’ with the English team is finished is welcome, my client, the English football team, has instructed me to demand that you desist all further contact immediately. England wishes to state that it has never entered into any consensual relationship with you, and has no intention of ever doing so. My client has also instructed me to remind you that under the terms of your restraining order, you are not permitted to attempt to contact the team, nor to come within 500 metres of England.

My client also asks that you return any items in your possession that belong to England, including a series of cuddly lion mascots, which my client believes you may have taken for your own gratuitous sexual relief. These may be returned to my office, to avoid you having direct contact with England. Failure to return any such items, or failure to abide by the terms of your restraining order may result in criminal prosecution.

Please cease this charade that there is any relationship between you and my client, and please cease your campaign of harassment immediately.

Yours,
Keith Burtons
Solicitor to the England football team

P.S. Are you aware that you share your name with the legendary ginger snooker player Steve “The Nugget” Davis?

by Keith Burtons on Jun 22, 2010 7:55 AM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Entertaining

Odd that the briefs letter was a more interesting read than the article.

Also Steve ‘Interesting’ Davis was another nickname.

And Jimmy ‘Whirwind’ White too. Bit of a cockney chancer but would have liked to see him win at the crucible. Come On Jimmy!!

by oohrogerpalmer on Jun 22, 2010 8:18 AM EDT reply actions  

If...

If England had won its first two matches, we’d be hearing insufferable, endless drivel about how great they are and about how US soccer just doesn’t measure up because we can’t beat the country that invented the game, blah blah blah. (like we did after the 2-0 friendly) And we would hear none of this “England is an average team that doesn’t show well in the World Cup” stuff. Did the English commenters above really see the EASY cover and think it was all wrong? At the time? Really?
Go Slovenia.
Go South Africa.
Go USA!

by Irrlicht on Jun 22, 2010 10:16 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Would you?

If you look for it, sure, but I found my way on to the SB Nation boards as they were a haven from pricks waving their dicks; people who knew the game, knew that all pride forshadows a fall and were able to both support their own team and to give a well-deserved nod to others who were doing it the “right way”.

Merely erecting straw men to have a pop at is, at best, childish and, at worst, pandering to the horrible stereotype of loudmouth American “we love you if you’re winning” attitude.

“Winning isn’t everything: it’s the only thing”. Even from such a tight-arse it was supposed to be dry humour.

Yes, people over here who (still bother to) read the EASY headline basically thought, “that’s The Sun for you”. Do you watch Bill O’Reilly on Fox News and agree? Or watch Glenn Crying Man thingy and are pleased that’s what people over here watch to confirm their prejudice you’re all a bunch of right-wing fundamentalist christian nutjobs? Seriously, The Sun’s a fucking joke over here. Base your "wahhhhhh"s on something other than a comic or grow the fuck up.

Nowhere on this site (or its sisters on SB Nation) have people been predicting a victorious England. We enter every tournament with the weight of 50 years of fuck all on our shoulders. No one does a better job of self-laceration than the English, we could do without our bigger, faster, younger brother blowing rasberries. It really spoils what love we had for you in the first place.

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Revisionist history

ok… the preponderance of English media (not just the Sun— the sun was just more pithy) thought this was an easy group. And compared to other groups it probably was. You can distance yourself from the Sun and call it a straw man, fine but don’t try to distance yourself from the reactions of the time. Truth is, England could have gotten a tougher draw and been that much closer to crashing out. I’m guessing that there was a fair amount of self-laceration to be sure but also a fair amount of relief that the group wasn’t tougher.

My point was not that winning is the only thing. Its the reaction to the wins and losses. When England wins, we get preached to about how much better they are, when the US wins or ties, its “oh, well the yanks got lucky” Granted Green’s howler was a piece of luck but…
The US has been an underdog in world soccer for a long time now and will likely continue to be for some time. England is a favorite, puts itself up as a model and yes, there is schadenfreude when they fall on their face. And if England makes it out of the group and wins in the knockout rounds, you’ll be able to measure on a second hand of a watch how long it will take for the smugness to return…

(and a word on that “we love you when you’re winnning” sterotype…. huh? Americans love underdogs— do you guys hear anything about the Cubs, the Red Sox long drought, the Saints going 30 years without a playoff appearance? Also, judging from the sold out stadia for Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool, there seems to be a fair amount of bandwagon fans over there too)
(one more thing, never watch O’Reily and Beck, too busy on soccer blogs)

by Irrlicht on Jun 22, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where

are you “preached to”?

As I keep saying, this forum (ie SB Nation in general) appeared to be a haven away from dimwads dancing around the corpses of their foes. There’s no point dragging in the unpleasant behaviour of other folks in an attempt to justify your own distasteful views. The moral low-ground is a crowded place and it’s a shame this appears to be the new overspill area.

And yes, the stereotype is of a culture that fetishises winners, winning and success in all its forms. It may amaze you but virtually nobody on these shores has the first idea who the Sox, Cubs or Saints are.

I love the fact you say you don’t have time to watch O’Reily or Beck but you seem to have found the time to get offended by an English rag. May I suggest you treat it with the same time and respect as you claim to have for your own spewers of falsehood and vitriol?

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

some thoughts...

Some points for you to ponder…
— If you’re going to make a call for maintaining a high minded tone and avoiding the moral low-ground (I like the image!) you may want to refrain from personal attacks such as “dimwads” and my “distasteful views”

— I’m very familiar with the knowledge of UK fans of American sports and it does not amaze me at all to know that noone in the UK in general is familiar with those teams. (brother lives in London, plenty of visits over there) I was merely refuting your point with evidence. The sterotype of winning above all else may persist abroad but there are plenty of hard-core non-bandwagon fans here. (Have just suffered through a brutal 8 game losing streak for my DC United) I agree with you that sterotypes should be nipped in the bud whenever possible and I do my part to convince my countrymen that there actually are dentists in England… (seriously)

- My point on the English rag (for the third and last time) was that it crystalized a general feeling in England that the group was a relatively easy one. Heck, the group was easy. I was thrilled to see England instead of Argentina, Brazil, Portugaul, etc. because I viewed England as a much easier chance at a victory and was very happy that we didn’t draw other tough teams to make it a group of death. But yes, I take your point about your tabloids, we have similar here- the New York Post, good for a laugh generally but not much more.

cheers!

by Irrlicht on Jun 22, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is a wind up job

as Rudi said above, we don’t need to be reminded that we’re crap. Not many predicted England winning the World Cup, and yes, the group was easy, as the only supposedly tough game was the US game. However, the Sun does not reflect every man’s position.
That would be equivalent to, as Rudi said above, thinking that everyone in America believes Barack Obama is the second coming as Adolf Hitler because Glenn Beck et al keep out running that line.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 11:23 AM EDT reply actions  

If the commenters in this thread are any indication,

England is not taking this break up very well

exploding highfive

by sarnold on Jun 22, 2010 11:46 AM EDT reply actions  

Meh,

it’s like hearing your stalker has found another victim. Good luck with them, they’ll really hate you; at least we showed interest.

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

speaking of stalker

I believe thats how Holland and Spain would look at the US.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

From an American perspective, I can agree with this analogy. MLS and US soccer have been modeled after the EPL and Enland for far too long.
This country is a melting pot, but we’ve allowed our soccer culture to be bogged down in ugly, physical play. We should be drawing upon influences from Latin America, South America Spain, Germany, Holland, etc. just as we have quite a few immigrants from all those regions. Then we can develop our own style that is a confluence of the best approaches in the world. Also, there are some players that I’d prefer to be in La Liga or Serie A over the EPL. They allow for greater development of creativity.
Knowing the background of US soccer and it’s reliance upon English footballing culture, that’s what I thought this article was about, not trash talk for the sake of trash talk.

by fennsk1 on Jun 22, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh sure.

If only the EPL had players from Latin America, South America Spain, Germany, Holland, etc in it, that’d really help make it the go-to league, wouldn’t it? Ah well, we’ll just stick to our insular, home-baked football and look enviously at those cosmopolitan leagues across the Atlantic…..

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

rudi, rudi, rudi

you seem to be driven either by misunderstanding or argumentativeness… or both.
I’m not talking about the players, I’m talking about the style and tactics of the league and national team. US Soccer needs an identity of it’s own, and it can’t do so leaning mainly on England. In keeping with it’s melting pot, nature it should build itself up from numerous sources, not just the English. I feel that the US reliance on an English approach to the game has prevented us from fully integrating the vast reserves of players and fans in this country that hail from other backgrounds.

by fennsk1 on Jun 22, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

But that's my point.

You (and many of the other posters) are conflating the EPL with the England football team. They’re two hugely different entities, run by different bodies, playing differently and with different goals and people to please.

No league bases itself on an international team, so you must be referring to the EPL which, until this past year, has been the dominant league in the world by quite some margin (and, as I say above, no group is more pleased to see the pendulum swing away than the English, tired of the preening, smug cash-a-thon we’ve witnessed for far too long).

The article kicking off the thread is referring to England, not the EPL,

by rudi on Jun 22, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get all the confusion

a lot of Americans support Premier League teams and not England. There is a complete difference. England plays different from a lot of clubs in the Premier League. The English approach to the game in the Premier League that can be successful just doesn’t work anymore (see Aston Villa).

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

The confusion

In my mind, the English national team plays an ugly style despite routinely high-level talent, and the EPL allows physical play even though they have some of the most talented players in the world. Over the years I have witnessed what I felt to be echoes of the worst of England and the EPL in US Soccer and MLS respectively (with lower talent levels). I’ll admit that I don’t watch much England NT, since the few games I’ve caught haven’t been very entertaining. My blaming MLS’s over-physicality on the EPL-model may be unfair as well, but from what I have seen of Euro-footie, no top league seems to be as physical as the EPL.
That’s what the original article reminded me of, the US soccer being historically over-influenced by England. Remember, the article was written by a US writer for a US audience.

…can’t resist…

Go Germany.

by fennsk1 on Jun 23, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

THe Premier League is more physical because it is English

make no mistake, England’s football style is more physical than how many other countries play. There is though, at the Top 5 more importance on passing the ball around than the Villas, Stokes and Boltons of the Premier League.

At least when we lose to the Germans it won’t be embarrassing as it will when Ghana beat the US.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 24, 2010 6:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Embarassing?

Right, and all I was saying is that MLS and US soccer should look to emulate the approach of other countries, too, as we seem headed down the road of simple tactics and over-physicality.

How could the US possibly get more embarassed in this World Cup than England has been already? We fought through horrible calls, won the group (even though we should have had 7 points and less drama without those calls), play as a cohesive unit, and have shown the greatest perseverence of any team in the tournament. Our only embarassments were in defensive lapses against England and Slovenia (and those went away w rusty Gooch’s benching)
England’s stars haven’t played well together, they had the worst GK error of the tournament, and their players seem to be setting up to divert blame on the coach and others. Sure you’re expecting to lose to the Germans, but that’s a bad thing, right?

I give us much better odds at reaching the quarters or semis out of Ghana then Uruguay/S Korea over your chances with Germany then Argentina/Mexico.

by fennsk1 on Jun 24, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

How could the US possibly get more embarassed in this World Cup than England has been already?

Because drawing against the US, ranked 14th when we are ranked 8th isn’t a bad result. Drawing against Algeria is, but losing to the Germans isn’t. Meanwhile, after all the hype there’s been for the US, isn’t losing to Ghana a bit of an embarrassment.

Our only embarrassment was Green’s keeping; without that error they wouldn’t have been so tentative against Algeria.

Of course we’re expecting to lose against the Germans. Even if we had topped the group we’d expect to lose against the Germans. They’ve had our number almost every time we’ve ever played them in a competitive game except for 1966 and the 5-1 in Munich.

have shown the greatest perseverence of any team in the tournament

Uh, did you even watch the New Zealand games?

Oh, and stop moaning about horrible calls. This shit happens in football, it’s happened to every team. You can’t say that “if that goal was given against Algeria we’d won 2-0”, because you just don’t know what might’ve happened.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 24, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

and yes,

sure, the top team with very few English players play an attractive style.

by fennsk1 on Jun 24, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Very few English players

Like the first 2 teams that provided a third of the squad?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 24, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

right

only a third of the squad. Arsenal plays the most attractive style, and off the top of my head I can’t think of an English player on that team.

by fennsk1 on Jun 24, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Walcott, Gibbs, Wilshere

Wenger has more players coming in that are English that should form a basis of the squad, players like Wilshere, Luke Freeman, Benik Afobe and Craig Eastmond.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 24, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

stats

Yes, Walcott probably should have come to mind, but according to ESPN’s roster stats for arsenal, 15 foreigners started more games than any of the players you just listed. Fifteen! Was Walcott hurt for large portions of the season, or is he just that for down the rotation?

by fennsk1 on Jun 24, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Injured

Wilshere was on loan at Bolton.
And I’m talking about next year as well, keeping in mind that there are new squad rules.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 25, 2010 7:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

this post is even more laughable today.

“At least when we lose to the Germans it won’t be embarrassing as it will when Ghana beat the US.”
Sure, our loss was disappointing, but yours was hilarious.

by fennsk1 on Jun 28, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

and all that would hold water if English teams hadn’t utterly dominated the Champions’ League for a decade and the EPL has been by a lonnnnnnnng margin the most watched league across the planet for quite some time.

Perhaps it’s all those ex-pats and Anglophile European referees?

So in that regard, being both the most popular and producing the best teams, I’d say MLS hasn’t been following the model particularly closely, am I right…..?

by rudi on Jun 24, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rudi,
You have an amazing talent for changing the subject into pedantic side-points. I’m not saying that EPL is crap, and in no way am I arguing that MLS is close it’s level, or that of Spain, Germany, or Italy.

My point is not really to insult the English, other than to say that the US and MLS should look to other football cultures, along with the English, as influences. From an American perspective, I saw that as the point of the satircal piece that started this whole discussion.

by fennsk1 on Jun 24, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I for one did not know we had a footballing relationship

But maybe that’s what Brian McBride was doing at Fulham.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 22, 2010 11:47 AM EDT reply actions  

Great post!

Now if we could get the ESPN announcers to knock off the EPL references we’d have it made!

by DrWeevil on Jun 22, 2010 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Dude

What Were You THINKING?

One to many Newkie Browns I guess.

by Cool Dudes on Jun 25, 2010 1:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Dear US, We're breaking up

The optimism was there. The hype was there.
And then you lost to Ghana, 2-1, again.
Too bad, good luck in 4 years time. Meanwhile, we’ve got some Germans to take care of.
Sincerely,
Wazza, JT, Lamps, Stevie, Crouchy, and Greeno (Did all I could)

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Jun 26, 2010 7:22 PM EDT reply actions  

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