MLS reserve league en route for 2011; details still being sorted
by Steve Davis on Aug 27, 2010 11:17 AM EDT
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Significant momentum is rising to resurrect Major League Soccer’s reserve league in 2011. I really believe it will happen, and the league really will be better for it.
The form that league takes, however, is still anyone’s guess. It’s all being sorted out now by the league’s technical and competition committees. Major League Soccer’s board of directors will vote on proposals in November in
Here’s what they are trying to reconcile, according to one MLS manager I spoke to earlier this week:
There’s a lot of talk over regionalizing the league, possibly into East, West and Central. There is some pleasant symmetry behind that concept: 18 teams divided into three regions creates a double-round robin schedule of 10 matches each.
But the relatively light volume of contests is the first point of debate; Some officials are pushing for more than 10 games. Of course, each reserve league match adds to the cost, mostly in travel. These aren’t necessarily hard times in MLS (despite the struggling economy) but teams aren’t flush with cash, either.
Playing more than 10 matches probably would require movement beyond the regional concept. After all, how many times would the Chicago Fire reserves want to face the Columbus Crew reserves?
All these looming decisions are also tied into roster sizes and player availability. No one wants to see a repeat of the reserve league follies past, as staff members, assistant coaches and local semi-pros were recruited just to fill out some matches. Much eye-rolling ensued. “This is our ‘reserve league’ ”?
So, all that needs to be hashed out.
Meanwhile, here’s something else the coach told me, and it’s pretty interesting: (click forward for more …)
The league established its official reserve league in 2005. It went away after 2008 amid concerns over costs (remember, the
Plus, reserve league matches were just a big ol’ drag. They were generally played on Sunday mornings following a Saturday night match. That meant players (all of them), managers and staff had to stay around until Sunday night. Instead of traveling home on Sunday morning and having time with family and friends, they weren’t getting back into town until late Sunday night. It evolved into a something of a major bummer.
The time away has changed some tunes, the coach told me. (I’m not naming him because the league owners and high-level GMs prefer to keep these conversations behind closed doors until they get ready to make actual announcements.)
Just like other things in life, we don’t know what we have until they get taken away.
So now, clubs around MLS can better appreciate the full value of reserve matches. They see good, young players languishing on the bench with nowhere to go. The young talent won’t get any better without matches. But the decreasing percentage of teams that qualify for the playoffs means managers will be increasingly reluctant to put the youngsters first-team minutes with so much on the line. So, the young guns are stuck.
Young players need incentive to work harder in practice. If they get games, they’ll get a chance to impress, which means they’ll be pushing the players in front of them.
Everybody wins, because that bumps up the overall quality. And who doesn’t want that?
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I'm probably displaying my extreme ignorance with this question...
… but if we’re not going to institute a promotion/relegation system, why isn’t the MLS reserve system effectively the USL, or new NASL, or USSF D2 Pro League, or whatever they’re going to end up calling it?
Or, forget “effectively”… why wouldn’t the Columbus Crew ink a reserve deal with, say, the Charleston Battery?
I’ve wondered this as well. Why doesn’t the second division become something along the lines of baseball’s Minor Leagues? Each MLS side can run a USL side and work out some rules to move players back and forth from the A-team and the B-team.
that would work
but since the MLS offer to purchase the USL was turned away for a lesser offer (rumor is Nike wanted some type of foothold in US soccer) it ended up with US Soccer having to step in and combine the USL and NASL. The issue isn’t how to just develop players, but how to get some of your non 14 players per match some quality time? Even the EPL has a reserve division to help their younger players develop.
MLS offered to purchase the USL? Source?
My memory is that MLS looked into it, but never even came close to making an offer.
some have done this.
Chicago has a PDL team, as do next year’s expansion clubs, Vancouver and Portland.
My theory is that the root of the issue MLS and USL simply being independent businesses. If at some point MLS was flush with cash, spending it to buy a USL franchise to serve as minor league for each club might make sense, IF they had enough young stubs to fill a USL roster, you might see it.
Personally I like the idea of regional reserve system, with clubs strongly encouraged to schedule 5-10 reserve friendlies against USL clubs and whoever else will come to them for cheap.
Money
Exactly. MLS clubs don’t have the resources to do this yet.
Hopefully soon they will.
Win or lose, we will always be here for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Aug 27, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
PDL teams like Chicago's are for amatuers
no player under contract could appear because the amatuers on the club would have lost their NCAA eligibility.
That rule just changed, so maybe the PDL is the answer for Reserves, though with their limits on Over 25s it might not be the perfect fit.
I think that MLS Reserve teams should just operate in D2 or D3 just as they do in Germany and Spain.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I like the idea of MLS Reserve League being D2
I don’t see any reason for MLS to necessarily work a direct relationship with each of the current D2 teams. They can work independently. I believe there are still a few MiLB teams that aren’t affiliated. It would work like that.
You could do the three divisions as envisioned above. Adding in Edmonton, Austin, Rochester, Montreal (this year), Miami, Tampa, Puerto Rico, and Carolina would allow more games, maybe even pushing up to the 30 that the D2 currently has. And with regionalization, there may be a few other teams that couldn’t afford to join that actually could.
It would just require some bending/modifying of the current D2 rules that came out.
The only problem that I see with it, from the current D2 team perspective, is that they’d been getting occasional players on loan from MLS teams. That would dry up. But, honestly, that’s only three players at most. They should be able to get by without that.
Reserve league as D2 won't work
Why? Roster sizes. Are you going to tell an MLS club with 24 players that, on a given weekend, they’ll need 18 of those players for an MLS match while also needing 18 to go play in, say, Miami or Puerto Rico? The numbers don’t even come close to adding up, even for clubs that have multiple homegrown players.
If the Reserve League was to become a part of another league (D2, USL-2, whatever), you’d need big increases in roster size (probably between 36-40 players per club). Even if these new spots were all either for academy products or senior minimum players, you’re talking about nearly $500,000 in salary per MLS club (or $9 million league-wide as of next season). There is simply no way that’s happening.
This isn’t about what the reserve league should be (which is simply a place for guys not quite ready for regular MLS minutes to develop their games), it’s about how it will be implemented. 10 matches, for example, is too low of a figure. I think that if the clubs are worrying about making a balanced round robin schedule, they’re missing the point. Having each club play each other club home and away is nice, but it’s not necessary. The point of the reserve league isn’t to be 100% parity compliant, it’s to develop new players. The biggest winners from the reserve league years aren’t the reserve league champions, they’re the clubs that turned a benchwarmer into a quality starter. New England got one with Larentowicz, and Houston did the same with Chabala.
My point is, who really cares if the Columbus reserves have to play one extra road game to take the total number of matches up to 15? The point is to get these players decent quality games, not to have a nice pretty league set up. Pick the number, make a schedule, and if someone gets the minor inconvenience of having an extra road game, so be it. Next year, make sure it’s someone else. Move on.
Player availability is the biggest issue, and I don’t know how you solve it. If you’ve got a thriving academy, it’s probably not going to be a problem. However, not every MLS team has the academy strength that you see at DC, Dallas, Chivas, and NY. How will those clubs make up numbers?
Here’s my question, Steve: Is the desire for the reserve league strong enough to get MLS to add a few more roster spots (perhaps taking us back up to the previous high of 28 per club)? That would be great news (especially to CCL/Superliga clubs), but it also requires a significant amount of money.
MLS and the PA have already reached an agreement on Reserve Player Salaries
It will be in the low 30s
They are actually talking about a real league with a team of players.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Wow? Is the whole idea that far along?
So I assume reserve players from ‘regular’ teams as well as a roster of how many? 18? 15?
Adidas money will fund some of this.
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2010/08/mls-adidas-eye-improved-youth-development-with-new-deal.html
According to Ives, Adidas committed to up from $15mill/year to $25m/year, with an emphasis on youth development.
I don’t think D2 would make sense for reserves. IMHO, better to keep it simple and use the extra funds to:
- expand rosters
- allow travel so Academy players can play alongside roster reserves.
No more replacement players filling out lineups, and you avoid the headache of overhauling to the extent of setting up D2 sides.
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