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Good soccer market, or bad? A little more nuance, please

A great stadium opens, and a "great soccer market" is born. ... Or is the truth something much more complex?

Some time back in June, on some golden and mystical night, benevolent fairies sprinkled magic soccer dust over greater Kansas City, which was wondrously and instantly transformed into a fantastic soccer market.

Previously, clearly, it had been a wasteland for our sport. There was precious little love for the Major League Soccer team there, and until the last couple of years, rarely a day went by when suggestions weren’t floated that soccer in this country would be far better off with Kansas City erased from the MLS map.

After all, local media didn’t give it a second look. Fan interest was sparse. Youth soccer was token level at best. Or so the theories went. It was usually summed up and tied off thusly: “Kansas City is not a good soccer market.”

Of course, Livestrong Sporting Park opened on June 9, and “Shazam!”   Kansas City is now a great soccer market.  One of the country’s best, perhaps?  Maybe.  I mean, look at it. Sporting Kansas City is averaging 17,678 at its amazing new park. That’s better than 11 MLS teams.

And those 11 teams now, clearly, now play in bad soccer markets. At least, by conventional wisdom.

Perhaps you’re seeing my point here. Obviously, I don’t believe Kansas City was ever a bad soccer market.  It wasn’t a great one when using some of the accepted metrics – but it was far from hopeless. It took a complete 180 in the city’s ownership and stadium situation to reveal the city’s soccer soul.

Here’s the point: this is something we tend to over-simplify, assigning far too much weight on one simple measure when we plant the flags of “Good soccer market” and “Bad soccer market” across the United States.  The truth, of course, is far more complex.  There are so many variables, and evolving variables at that.

I live in a city that’s long been a “bad soccer market.” Only, it’s not. Keep reading ...

Star-divide

 

Dallas has a rich soccer history. We recently passed the 30th anniversary of the Dallas Tornado folding. There was a time, believe it or not, when Dallas was one of the real promising young ponies in the North American Soccer League stables. In the late 1970s, the team was quite prominent in Dallas culture and in the local sports scene.

The Tornado played inside a small ground, smack in the middle of the city (imagine that) and regularly drew crowds that would make some Major League Soccer clubs quite pleased today. Even the college game made news here. The pro athletes were local celebrities who used their acclaim to help sow the seeds of youth soccer, establishing lasting legacies.

That made Dallas a “hotbed” for the youth game (I personally think that’s one of the most over-used words in the sport’s lexicon, but that’s another story.) Thus, Dallas established youth clubs that won national championships. Still do.

The point is this: Years later, somewhere along the line, poor decisions led the MLS club here into an attendance spiral. The local media was never very friendly to the sport. The stadium situation was highly imperfect – then became highly in imperfect in a much different way with the move to suburban Pizza Hut Park.

Dallas didn’t become a bad soccer market; rather, Dallas became a notoriously struggling MLS market. But those concepts were improperly mixed into a shared soup, and were overly simplified from there.  (Better decisions are being made these days, by the way, and attendance is moving the right direction for FC Dallas, but it takes a while to shake a bad rap.)

Oh, and another “by the way:” anybody who says Dallas doesn’t support soccer is tiptoeing a dangerous line. About 45 percent of this city is Latino, so to say something like that more or less dismisses the interests of about half the city, a half that absolutely does support soccer – just not necessarily MLS soccer.

Meanwhile, let’s look at Boston. The New England Revolution is averaging about 200 people more per game than FC Dallas. Just a couple of MLS clubs are lower in average crowd counts. So, Boston is a bad soccer market now, right?

Of course not. It’s a club stuck with a bad stadium situation. It’s not winning, left behind in the post-season once again.  Things are stale generally and the owners’ spending habits have become damaging in numerous ways.

But greater Boston has NOT devolved into bad soccer market. To say so would fall somewhere between “overly simplified” and “overtly ignorant.”

Same for Columbus, which tends to go in and out as “good market” and “bad market” in the fluid MLS soccer market discussions. The stadium isn’t in a great place, mistakes have been made in value assessment on certain properties attached to the team, etc.  As a result, attendance has suffered.  

The fact is, a lot goes into cultivating a flourishing soccer market. Just in terms of MLS markets, it’s some cocktail of demographics, youth scene, media friendliness, committed and engaged ownership, stadium situation, marketing savvy, on-field success and the tricky ability to capitalize on big moments or big player signings along the way. There’s probably more.

Bottom line: The next time a fan, blogger or (especially) someone in the media assigns a “thumbs up” or a “thumbs down” to an area’s soccer market factor, let’s hope they treat it with a little more thoughtful consideration, and a little less echo chamber cliché.

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Stop Calling it MARKETS!

Give fans a proper club to root for and not a soccer market. Why is this so hard to understand for MLS. I hate all the restrictions MLS puts on “markets” and I hate that I live in a city that will probably never have a team due to MLS’s expansion fee policy. Make all clubs independent and institute pro/rel so all teams have something to play for.

by boredbobby on Oct 6, 2011 2:20 PM EDT reply actions  

not this again...

MLS pro/rel has nothing to do with this post and it has been rehashed about a zillion times on pretty much every soccer forum on the internet…

Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.

by johnjahafanclub on Oct 6, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   3 recs

Great job

Great Job and cherry picking my statement to make yourself feel better.

by boredbobby on Oct 6, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

what are you talking about?

you said pro/rel is a magic bullet solution to your contrived problem with MLS

Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.

by johnjahafanclub on Oct 6, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

your post didn't make sense

Why shouldn’t the word markets be used?
What city do you live in? Expansion fees are a given for any pro league, and MLS charges a lot less than other sports.
Pro/rel argument thrown in there is just laughable. Too many reasons that’s unrealistic to list here.

by fennsk1 on Oct 7, 2011 7:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

The Problem with US Soccer

Promotion and Relegation works in every aspect of our lives. Imagine if computer makers were single entity and each squashed quality in search of profit. We would still have computers the size of a house! Companies get promoted and relegated but that doesn’t seem to transfer to US Sports because fans are so bamboozled by the owners.

by boredbobby on Oct 7, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

By your argument

We do have pro/rel… the MLS could be promoted to the status of more noted league, with higher revenue and a higher status, higher talent comparable to leagues in Europe.. or the MLS can be relegated, lose fan interest and revenue and talent, and eventually go the way of the old NASL.

So many soccer fans seem to think that pro/rel is the only “fair” way to do things. But how “fair” is Europe where teams are able to push other teams into bankruptcy to keep up with spending, where teams take an unequal amount of revenues within their own league? How fair is it when a team’s only hope of competing is praying for some rich Emirati to buy their team and pump loads of money into it? How fair is it when towns and cities have teams that. even thought they have been led to believe they will have a chance to matter through pro/rel, never will, and will only realistically be able to compete for the Johnstone’s Paint Trophy?

I want more than that for my team.

by musamonster on Oct 7, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

+1

As much as I like the Euro system, I know it can’t work here. Not now, maybe not ever. And that response elucidates all the reasons why it’s also a flawed system.

Founder and Editor of The Bent Musket on SBNation.
Twitter: @Stoehrst or @TheBentMusket

by Steve Stoehr on Oct 10, 2011 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am glad my town doesn't have a team

It’s a small town, has a sizable university, and if it were in England, would probably have it’s own league team… but it would be a pathetic little league team that would never go anywhere… the one time in a century it does would be great, but the rest of the time it would be a distraction from the real Big League teams that actually mean something, that I actually want to watch. When I watch the NFL, I want to see the Big Boys play, the best of the best. The same with my soccer.. I want to see the best possible product.

The problem with your city is you don’t have an owner who can front the money for the league expansion fee. Without that owner, I would also be worried about whether a team and all it’s expenses can be supported as well.

by musamonster on Oct 6, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Best Product

You want to see the best possible product so you watch MLS? My friend, Mexico has the 12th best league in the world. maybe you should start learning some Spanish rather than watching MLS.

by boredbobby on Oct 7, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do I live in Mexico?

No.

Do I want to live in Mexico?

No.

So I support the league in the country where I live. And when I truly want to watch the best of the absolute best, I will watch a league much better than the crummy FMF.

by musamonster on Oct 7, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Why would it never go any where

Even the Logansville penny poachers can win the Dixeville Brew League.

by Cool Dudes on Oct 7, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

You can’t be serious with this statement! Do you even have a clue how MLS is operated? You can’t have pro/reg and you can’t not put restrictions on markets and let teams operate independently. If you did there would be 3 teams in MLS. I believe Garber said at the 2010 MLS cup that only Toronto and Seattle were profitable last year.

Are you 10 years old?

by MLSnob on Oct 9, 2011 3:21 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions   1 recs

Are you saying

that there are no bad soccer markets? If not, what are the bad ones?

by Spoonsky on Oct 6, 2011 6:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Bangor, Maine

Worst. Soccer. Market. Ever.

(Kidding!)

by musamonster on Oct 6, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Crew
The stadium isn’t in a great place, mistakes have been made in value assessment on certain properties attached to the team, etc.

What do you mean by this Steve?

by brokejumper on Oct 6, 2011 7:37 PM EDT reply actions  

To elaborate on the Revs example...

New England supports the Revolution (adequately), but Gillette Stadium is in a terrible location. Foxborough just isn’t a convenient location to go to for a game, even for a Rhode Islander (it’s far closer to Providence than Boston).

The same comments could have been made about the Patriots in the pre-Bill Parcells era. You couldn’t give away Pats tickets then. New Englanders just won’t shell out money for a bad team in a bad location. It took the Pats 30 years to win the hearts of Red Sox (Celtics…Bruins…) Nation. It just takes time to lay down roots. A good stadium with a good team playing in it certainly helps.

by over there on Oct 7, 2011 9:34 AM EDT reply actions  

I used to think that getting a new stadium before the team improved would be "cart before horse"

KC has totally changed my mind. Although, if I can be totally honest, I think it started with new ownership (obviously) but also being stuck in CommunityAmerica Ballpark for a season or two. That wasn’t a great soccer stadium, but it was intimate and always sold out. Changes the atmosphere at games, changes the fan interaction, changes attitudes.

I was spitballing with some of the other press box guys on Saturday about this, and I think that maybe moving to a temporary location nearer to the city might be good for the team on its own merits, in addition to the benefits of then moving to an SSS.

Founder and Editor of The Bent Musket on SBNation.
Twitter: @Stoehrst or @TheBentMusket

by Steve Stoehr on Oct 10, 2011 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would BoB Kraft ever approve of that?

I’ve always had the impression he views the Revs as a way to fill seats in between football games.

by Dizzo on Oct 11, 2011 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think he would

I’d be surprised if Bob and Jonathan can actually name every player on the roster

Founder and Editor of The Bent Musket on SBNation.
Twitter: @Stoehrst or @TheBentMusket

by Steve Stoehr on Oct 11, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

The term "markets"

only refers to the city as a whole, not the clubs themselves.

I’m of the opinion that MLS (and MLS 2 which should be the 2nd division but no pro/rel for now) should go for smaller markets like Tulsa, OKC, Sacramento, Bangor, places that have little “major” competition. Would you have to lower the fees for them to come in? Probably, which is why they would be MLS 2.

As for my beloved Hoops, they’re screw up was in one word. Southlake.

Chad the Ref

by Chad the Ref on Oct 7, 2011 12:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Not just cities

It means the greater media market. Suburbs and sometimes even other nearby cities are included in that statement.

Founder and Editor of The Bent Musket on SBNation.
Twitter: @Stoehrst or @TheBentMusket

by Steve Stoehr on Oct 10, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very true...

But in the DFW media market, the populace is all spread out. I wouldn’t expect people from Ft. Worth to make the 50+ mile trek one way to see FCD play very often.

Now you want to talk 2 team markets!! FC Dallas playing Ft. Worth (fill in blank) would be huge rivalry!!!!

Chad the Ref

by Chad the Ref on Oct 11, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I live 60 miles from Nashville

and make the trip to see the Predators 5-10+ times a year. And I’m not the only one.

by musamonster on Oct 11, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Theoretically those who won't make the 50 mile trek will watch on TV

Contributes to ratings, revenue, and the market’s viability as a “soccer market.” That’s how they look at it, anyway, but I see your point.

Founder and Editor of The Bent Musket on SBNation.
Twitter: @Stoehrst or @TheBentMusket

by Steve Stoehr on Oct 12, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whatzis???

Southlake = “Bad Soccer Market”? Surely you can’t be serious! [tongue firmly planted in cheek]

by DissidentAggressor on Oct 10, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hard to believe

but I actually went to many of those games that year. It was truly gut wrenching.

Chad the Ref

by Chad the Ref on Oct 11, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

This started well before LIVESTRONG Sporting Park

What you don’t see in this, is that KC’s attendance had been strengthening every straight year with the new ownership group before the new stadium opened. They were limited by the temporary stadium, but slowly you saw the youth team/group sales market replaced by the stalwart MLS fan market (which contains many soccer moms in addition to traditional supporters). More fans were engaged by the team and interested in the game and team.

The Cauldron grew steadily and was 700-1000 in the little baseball stadium by the time we left. No one doubts that the new stadium gave an exponential boost to this franchise, but KC’s ownership group would be doing better in Dallas’ situation as well. There’s rarely a month that goes by that I don’t thank Lamar Hunt for all he did for MLS, then thank my lucky stars that he sold the team to our local owners.

by szazzy on Oct 7, 2011 1:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Dont forget...A little team called ManU came to town....

And say what you want about the game, but SKC WON! They won in front of lots of potential fans. They sold a crazy amount of season tickets the very next week!
Dont forget also, SKC ‘poor’ attendance were actually sell outs… its just they only had a temp. 10k stadium…

by GeoJock on Oct 7, 2011 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

KC's numbers at Arrowhead were abysmal before that

I don’t think anyone is hating on the Wizards’ attendance at CommunityAmerica Ballpark.

Founder and Editor of The Bent Musket on SBNation.
Twitter: @Stoehrst or @TheBentMusket

by Steve Stoehr on Oct 10, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

We should be so lucky here....

that the Hunt’s would sell FCD to a local ownership group.

Chad the Ref

by Chad the Ref on Oct 10, 2011 2:13 PM EDT reply actions  

WINNING

I live in Houston and love the Dynamo. The first 2 years were great. 2 championships and the city was buzzing. Regular people knew about the Dynamo, there was more radio coverage, and the attendance was high(er). But after missing the play-offs last year and struggling this year you can see the difference in the stands (even though league wide we’re still pretty good). People I know that used to go to the games aren’t interested anymore. Many use excuses like “when they get better I’ll go,” or “I’m waiting for the new stadium.”
My point: Houston is a large city with a huge latino population and a healthy youth soccer populace – i.e. a good soccer market, but what drives interest in casual or non-fans is winning. You build a tradition of winning along with the novelty of a new team or a new stadium and you will fill seats. And SKC has both and hopefully the Dynamo wil too.

by DynaNole on Oct 12, 2011 1:36 PM EDT reply actions  

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