U.S. player ratings conundrum; my simple solution
by Steve Davis on Jun 15, 2011 9:35 AM EDT
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KANSAS CITY – My SI.com assignment last night was to generate our expanded player ratings, a meaty chunk of text on each player’s performance rather than the skinnier version we sometimes do.
For the grades themselves, you can go here and see for yourself. The espresso shooter version from the United States’ 1-0 win over tiny Guadeloupe is this: defenders scored highly, the midfielders fairly average and the pair of forwards received two very different grades.
Here’s the thing: assigning a numerical grade was a little tougher than usual.
Typically, I look over my notes for the night, write the text about what each player did, didn’t do, how they performed their role, how their night fit in the bigger picture and how they performed relative to their level of expectation. Generally speaking, I then go back and assign a grade without much internal debate. Once you sort things into context, using the (very) rough formula above, the grade itself comes fairly easily.
Except, last night it didn’t. Read on for more …
The funny thing about last night is that, individually, most players did OK. In terms of doing anything wrong, there were only two players you could identify who stumbled. Clint Dempsey, obviously, had a night to forget. Even then, Dempsey had a great night of getting himself into scoring positions and making things happen on the attack. So, that one was a little tricky.
And in my opinion, Chris Wondolowski was a little too static in his movement. Plus, he didn’t convert near goal, which is always job one for any striker.
From there, individually, there wasn’t a U.S. man who had a stinker. From Tim Howard to Jozy Altidore, all nine starters handled their individual chores adequately at least. And the initial grading reflected as much.
So I filed the piece and then, as always, went back to take one more quick look. Once the pressure of deadline is lifted, sometimes you spot something you might have previously missed.
What I saw and thought was this: These grades are way too high for a team that just gave us a fairly dreary result. Just 1-0? Over Guadeloupe? Man, they don’t even have their own national anthem! (It’s the French anthem, as Guadeloupe is a French department.) So, while the individual grades weren’t wrong, exactly … they were still wrong. Not wrong in a technical sense, perhaps, because individual grading is just that – individual. But considering the unimpressive outcome, they seemed “wrong” like the way your buddy asks out the girl you just broke up with. “Dude! That’s just wrong.”
So I sent a quick note to my editor, asking him to drop specific grades by one number.
It seemed like a reasonable solution, if a bit simple. After all, this all subjective and far, far more art than science.
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I think some strong grades were deserved. There'd be no question if Dempsey had scored.
Here’s the thing: if Donovan, Dempsey, and Wondo just convert half of their cumulative bunnies—the soccer equivalent of a layup—the game’s over before halftime and key players get rested. Even if they converted only Dempsey’s alltimer and another of the 5+ “gotta make ’ems” they get a solid result and just laugh at the way the ball sometimes bounces. And then it’s high marks all around. I honestly think Dempsey shoulders a lot of the blame for this one by himself.
Am I alone in thinking Dempsey has been a little off since several weeks prior to the end of the EPL season? I was following his match ratings on English internet, and his last bunch of games generated much lower ratings and fewer goals than he’d been generating through the season. It seems like he’s tired or distracted, or something.
The Wondo grade is a joke
how does he get a worse grade than dempsey? Are you kidding me? 2 of Wondo’s 3 shots were at least on target…. only 2 of dempsey’s 10 shots were on target… 0 of LD’s 3… and on and on and on. If Wondo keeps hitting the target at that rate and making those runs and passes the goals and assists will come.
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jun 15, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
You made the Michael Jordan comparison
regarding Wondo twice after last game. Well Jordan did occassionally score once in awhile for his team. Dempsey had a horrendous night, but he’s established at this point (maybe too much so). Wondo needs to make an impact in order to establish himself, and frankly he’s had two howlers when it came to easy scores. The shot that didn’t hit the target was the one that should have been the easiest goal.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Jun 16, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Wondo was our most on target aside from jozy
Shots SOG
Altidore 2 1
Wondolowski 3 2
Dempsey 10 2
Donovan 3 0
Bedoya 2 1
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jun 16, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
because he was fucking awful, and its not just this game, its been every one he’s been put in. He can’t seem to make a shot on net. By the way, shooting it right at the goalie’s chest isn’t a good shot.
Dempsey was just probably drunk.
you don't understand soccer then
wondo is better than both jozy and agudelo at doing the little things – finding seams of open space, constantly making runs, he has a better touch and is better at passing to set up his teammates in the final 1/3.
you say “he can’t make a shot on net” when he he had the highest % of his shots on net out of any of our players in that game. he didn’t kick it in the goalies chest he made 2 good shots that required very good saves from the winner of the keeper of the tournament award from the 2007 gold cup.
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jun 16, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
"Wondo is the better passer"
yet Jozy was the one who put the ball on a plate with caviar for him against Panama, and he somehow put it in the 8th row from four yards away directly in front of the goal. I just looked at the last part of that sentence and started shaking my head again as the terrible memory came back again. Oh and by the way, Wondo is ten years older than Agudelo. He damn well should have a “better touch”, at his age he should be in his prime and seizing the moment, not missing layups.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Jun 16, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
love how you focus on Wondo's miss 2 games ago
and ignore LD’s and Dempsey’s misses against Guadeloupe which were far worse
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jun 16, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Um
With Dempsey and Donovan you are talking about two of the greatest goal scorers in USNMT history (the greatest in Donovan’s case). They get a lot more slack than your average squad member. How many goals has Wondowlowski scores as an international? Yeah, none.
Not mediocre. Right about average
ergo my point about sample size...
you are mistaken to project his abilities off of one play
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jun 16, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Love how you ignore
the bunny he missed in the Guadoloupe game. Two games, two layups missed. Two games is a small sample size (if you don’t count Spain), but he’s not stepping his game up at this stage, which is what we need. Again, nothing personal against the guy, I would have jumped up and cheered if he made both or either goal as much as I jumped up and cursed his name for missing both in an embarassing fashion.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Jun 16, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree with your characterization of it as a bunny
it wasn’t a layup. he had defenders and the goalie in front of him and he took a low driven shot on target that forced a tremendous save from a good keeper.
Now dempsey’s miss on the goal line later in the guadeloupe game? that was a “bunny/layup”
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jun 17, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a 24' by 8' goal
and he was within 8 yards. A professional striker at an international tournament needs to put that shot somewhere in the 16’ that was not within the keepers range. Especially a striker that is trying to win a recurring spot on the MNT.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Jun 17, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Here is a sample size example for you
I don’t think anyone disputes that Leo Messi is the best player in the world.
However, in the 2010 world cup, he played 5 games with Argentina and failed to score a goal and only had 1 assist.
do people take that and say “oh he sucks, kick him off the national team?” no. b/c of his amazing performances for his club. they know it’s just a sample size issue.
On the other hand, there was a guy named Robert Vittek for slovakia who tied for second in the World Cup in goals scored with four. However, nobody is falling over themselves to sign the guy – he got released by his mediocre turkish club last year and now plays for a tiny club in cyprus.
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jun 17, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
But you're missing the entire point
Messi is established. Messi has accolades at the highest club AND international level. People expect him to rebound and/or continue to grow. Wondolowski is not established on the NT and needs to make an impact in order to stick around (not to mention helping us get a better result in games). He has not made that impact, and has in fact missed two opportunities that he should be expected to capitalize on at this level. He’s 28 already (that shocked me when I found out), and if its taken this long to get a shot, I’m wondering why the biggest stage for two years was the time to throw him to the lions. I think he needed to be brought along in between this tourney and the qualifying to see if he had the chops. He hasn’t shown it yet.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Jun 17, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
US v Guadalupe
I thought the US played a very good game, dominating on possession, making great offensive runs, and shutting Guad down on defense.
On the other hand, their finishing (aside from Josy’s one great shot) stunk!
As soccerjohn mentioned above, it really was a 5-0 game if they could just FINISH!
No other stats (possession, etc) matter more than goals.
at least we had overlapping runs this time from wingbacks
our wingbacks were useless against panama… boca didn’t get forward at all and dolo couldn’t cross when he did go forward. yesterday we did better b/c boca was at his more natural CB allowing lichaj to run wild on the left wing and dolo’s crosses were much more accurate.
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jun 15, 2011 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd have given Dempsey a 3
by subtracting one point for every easy chance he missed, plus an extra two for missing from six inches. At halftime I told one of my friends that Dempsey’s head was having a bad game, but apparently it spread to the rest of him. And I don’t give him much credit for getting into scoring positions because it was freaking Guadeloupe that we were playing – it was mostly one-way traffic. If we make it to play Mexico and he carves out that many chances I’ll be impressed, but I agree with soccerjohn that he looks jaded.
He did hit two stellar free kicks
including one that hit the crossbar
so i would bump that up to a 4.5
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jun 15, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
A few thoughts from a new member...
I was at the game in Tampa last week, and I’m hoping we’ve shaken the suck off our team in the group stages. A few players I miss on the pitch…
Charlie Davies – He commands the tight spaces inside the 18 like no other player other than Dempsey. Is Sochaux still keeping him off the NT?
Stuart Holden – I know he’s injured, but is there really no one else to play holding MF except Jermaine Jones? To me, he is just reckless, and the 1 tough tackle he makes does not justify the 8 whiffs/fouls he commits with this approach.
Gooch – Is he ever going to be the player he was 2 years ago?
Benny Feilhaber – Every time Bradley put him into the lineup at the WC…we moved the ball up and scored goals. What a freaking concept!
CD9 is on DC and still not 100% fit plus he got a new minor injury before the gold cup
gooch could get back to two years ago, he lost a lot between injury and lack of playing time at ac milan. with regular playing time at twente he could work his way back into the picture.
jermaine jones is solid at CM and so is edu and MB… if holden was available right now we may have used him on the wing to spell a tired LD and dempsey last game. least of our concerns right now is CM.
we didn’t need benny… we moved the ball fine yesterday and created a ton of chances via good passing and off ball movement. the problem was finishing.
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jun 15, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Quick thoughts...
I think it all comes down to complacency, a lack of urgency. It is true that we have some key players missing, but I think we have enough quality to be able to play better than we did last night. Since the Spain game, I have noticed that some of the players seem don’t seem to be trying. Tim Howard said it best, “It was an OK performance: a little lifeless…” That to me, says a lot.
Dempsey's very own Leon Lett moment
I mean, seriously dude? What the … was that??? One Telefutura commentator went so far as to call it unprofessional. And I think he’s right. Here he has an empty net from a range of a couple of yards, and he’s playing around with the ball, as if to show up the opposition. And guess what? The opposition wasn’t impressed. Neither was Hugo Sanchez, who made the point that given the number of sitters we had our finishing is very inefficient. Finishing like this will not do against the Reggae Boyz.
I agree.
That crap would have gotten him benched at Fulham.
He's not the best player on that team.
Right now I would, if I were the coach, try to impart on every single player that they are not guaranteed starters. None of them. You produce, or you sit. Because that’s what the problem seems to be: a lackadaisical attitude, probably due to complacency, a sense of entitlement, and maybe a little arrogance (“hey, I’m an EPL player. Who’s he gonna replace me with?”)
You do this, and your best players WILL be on the field.
Whatever.
That seemed to be The Bruce’s approach when he coached United. Mourinho also demands production from his players, esp. in practice, before he’ll play them. Neither is a terrible professional football coach. Players who behave in a professional manner tend to find their way onto the field without needing any guarantees or coddling from the coach.
Can't bench deuce
Maybe should have subbed him out at minute 60 though. I wouldn’t say “lackadaisical” but I would say he was definitely tired from playing so many games on short rest. I think the EPL season has tired him out too.
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jun 17, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Makes BB's job kind of easy the next few days
he doesn’t need to schedule any tactics or passing practice… he just needs every practice to be spent the whole time on finishing drills.
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jun 15, 2011 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think he was actually show boating
He was thinking it was an easy tap in as long as he collected the ball and didn’t whiff on the 1st touch,
BUT all he had to do was make a bad first touch in front of him and he would have scored from that range, just very bad decision making.
and
you have to give credit to the Guadalupe player for making a very good tackle there incredibly quickly.
It actually does look
if not show-boating then definitely a loose, unprofessional attitude. If he had hit it on his second touch, after the first to settle, it’s a goal. But he actually takes two touches, and is setting up the third on his right foot, when the defender catches him. The camera angle from the back shows this clearly.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Jun 16, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
He only needed one touch
even a controlled first touch put in space ahead of him would have scored, it was just awful no more analysis is needed other than to figure out what he was drinking before the game.
Lest We Forget
Yes, Clint should have had a hat trick against Guadalupe. Should his howlers erase the memory of his excellent game-winner against Canada?
Not entirely
He’s earned leeway, but a laissez-faire attitude needs to be nipped in the bud. His head didn’t seem right the entire game, and at the end I thought he was looking for his own shot to break his slump when he had better options on the pass. Wondolowski on the other hand, has no good will built up amongst anyone not a rabid Quakes fan, and needs to stop missing freaking bunnies inside of 8 yards.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Jun 16, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
