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Stadium talk … lots of stadium talk

Why just say "men" and "women" when you can say it with a soccer flourish. (FYI: they are also marked, "men" and "women.")

Two things on today’s agenda:

Thing No. 1, an explainer on some stadium rakings that caused a stir.

Thing No. 2, A few words about what makes Livestrong Sporting Park such a great place – and it may not be what you think.

A few folks got their undies in a bunch over my Power Rankings of MLS stadiums (they are at the bottom of my weekly Five Things to Know about the MLS piece at SI.com.)

Here’s the thing some people didn’t understand: This wasn’t just about the facility, per se. It was about the “stadium situation,” if you will. Here’s what I said, “So all variables considered (facility itself, surface, economics, location, transportation, etc.) here is where everyone ranks:”

If it was just about the facility, it would have been a different list. Livestrong Park would be No. 1, and not just because it’s the flavor the moment. (More on that later).

But it’s not just a ranking of concrete, steel and amenities. Surface counts. Sorry all you good folks in the Northwest – it just does. Atmosphere counts. Sorry all you good folks in four or five different markets. Location counts. Economics count. That’s why the list was all about stadium situations.

Now you know. If you still disagree, that’s OK. Let’s just be sure we’re arguing about the same thing.

As for Livestrong, please read on to see where they really nailed it.

Star-divide

Yes, the place is just cool. The look and the feel are spot-on. The roof not only keeps fans dry in the nasty stuff, it holds the noise in. Super-wide concourses with views of the field are de rigueur, and Livestrong’s got ‘em.

But if you look a little deeper than pretty scenery and things we like in our soccer parks (roofs rock!), there’s plenty more here to be in love with.

I really, really hope Sporting Kansas City is on a path to profitability, although I know it will be well down the road. See, they invested serious money to do this thing right.

The final price tag came in at $200 million. Consider that PPL Park in Philly, a nice place by all accounts, finished at $120 million. That’s a hefty sum, and yet local ownership in K.C. outspent it by $80 million. Some grounds around MLS didn’t even get to $80 million on finals costs.

What did SKC get for that money? Well, they didn’t scrimp on any details, something I really appreciate. Little things, like the cool “mens” and “womens” bathroom indicators. There are little elements throughout the grounds that designers thought through similarly, and then didn’t look for ways to do the deal on the cheap.

Generally speaking, they designed the ground to create the best possible fan experience. I know that sounds obvious. But the fact is, plenty of stadiums now are designed to balance “fan experience” with “maximum revenue generation opportunities” and “frugal construction costs.”

So, Livestrong includes fan-friendly elements like UR codes on seats, so fans can “check in” on social media sites. The roofs cover all the seats, but some stadiums have had issues with grass growth where sunlight is obstructed. So, at significant expense, SKC officials located materials that would stand up to the weather but still allow enough sunlight to filter through.

The angle of the seating is different on all four sides. In one end zone, the seats at the very top are great because, as it’s so steep, you’re still pretty close to the field. At the other end, the first row of fans is ridiculously close to the field. (I mean that in a good way.)

The locker rooms are plush, which should help SKC attract talent that might otherwise wish their way to New York or L.A.

I could go on, but I’ll leave you with this as the perfect example of how they got this thing right:

You know how every stadium these days has a stadium club? Well, Livestrong has five.

One of them is for the lowest priced season ticket holders. And it’s a damn nice place, just off a corner of the ground, with a great view of the field. Inside they have a supporters’ scarf wall; you just donate your other favorite team’s scarf, and there it is for all to see. What a boffo idea! Most fans have their other favorites from other lands, right? This is a great way to connect, to put the pieces together. I expect this idea to be swiped liberally; it should be.

Inside this place (which has a separate liquor license, so it remains open well into the night on game days, and will be open for other sporting events on non-game days), fans can get a burger, a bag of chips and a drink for $6. How about them apples? Most stadium clubs wouldn’t fill a cup more than two-thirds full of beer for 6 bucks. Again, it’s a way to connect with this level season ticket holder.

If it all works, look for the next MLS ground to include a lot of the same elements. That’s a good thing. Sporting KC just set the new standard for what an MLS ground ought to be. 

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members stand club

I’m a downtown Kansas City resident. It takes a lot to get me out to the suburbs. LSP is a place where I will regularly attend for home games. It’s that nice. In fact, we’ll probably make a few trips out there for road games too.

Other pluses: free parking, and access into/out of the lots. Is a breeze. It took me 5 minutes to go from my car to the highway home. One correction: a beer, burger, and chips is $4.50!

@jschnauzer
Bloggin' at http://joepasdoghouse.com

by Cairo on Jun 17, 2011 4:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Hunts Take Note!!!

Beer, burger and chips $4.50…not everyone wants all you can eat.

$8+ beer is a sure-fire way to continue to load those parking lots up with more Bud Light cans than you can shake a churro at.

by timkvfp on Jun 17, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

until half time is over you can get 2$ 12oz Fireman’s 4, Lawnmower, dos equis or some other beer I forget. Or grab a 5$ 24oz bud/miller light down there. I’ve gotten plenty boozed up for cheap this season.
We’re road tripping up to KC for the FCD game, I’m looking forward to checking out those 3 second beer taps. that’s fast.

by jroach on Jun 17, 2011 5:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Public Financing...
The final price tag came in at $200 million. Consider that PPL Park in Philly, a nice place by all accounts, finished at $120 million. That’s a hefty sum, and yet local ownership in K.C. outspent it by $80 million. Some grounds around MLS didn’t even get to $80 million on finals costs.

This comment makes it seem like the ownership was spending its own money when it was not – it was spending largely taxpayer money:

In December 2007, Sporting Club received approval for approximately $275 million of public financing to create a soccer-specific stadium in Kansas City, Kansas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_Club

It’s great ownership was able to get so much public support but they shouldn’t get too much bonus points over other ownership groups that are doing it on their own. For example, SJ is building its stadium entirely with private funding. That is much more difficult to do than when you are given a huge pot of taxpayer financing.

As another example, as much as I hate the SF Giants, I respect their stadium (AT&T Park) more than any other professional stadium b/c it was 100% privately financed and it’s right in the middle of the downtown of the second most expensive cost of living / real estate city in the country.

Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.

by johnjahafanclub on Jun 17, 2011 7:27 PM EDT reply actions  

sounds great.

st louis resident here who will definitely be making his way over to kc at some point this summer.

capital letters suck.

by soccerfreak on Jun 18, 2011 1:16 AM EDT reply actions  

Is MLS Profitable Enough to Fund Stadiums?

That could provide a major selling point to future SSS growth. I know the D.C. stadium situation has hit several roadblocks as a direct result of resistance to public financing.

by Calvin Paquette on Jun 18, 2011 2:26 PM EDT reply actions  

I got a chance to go to Livestrong

on Friday. I sat in the members club section with some friend and wow these seats were practically on top of the field. The Members Club area really is something special. I would love to go watch Men’s National team games there. Truly amazing experience and atmosphere. I encourage anyone who is even in the region to try to make a trip here for a game.

by I need more Esteban on Jun 19, 2011 12:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Too big?

A Sounders fan here Steve. I am not going to get too worked up over the fact that you don’t like the turf. I would rather have grass myself but as you noted in the Portland blurb, it is a pretty difficult choice up here. Strangely though you did not seem to put much emphasis on this as you ranked Portland #2 despite it. Not a big deal though.

But calling Qwest too big just seems incredibly odd. You do realize that we have to seat 36,000+ for every game, right? On Thursday they are opening up the upper deck so we will see even more. The point is, if you are trying to measure the whole situation “facility itself, surface, economics, location, transportation, etc” I think you have to include the atmosphere and fans as well.

Right now Qwest offers the only stadium where you can have over 20,000 in a sold-out stadium. And its loud. I am sure I would like the iron cutouts above the restrooms as much as you. Maybe in a few years our attendance will drop and you can write an article about how silly it seems to have 12,000 fans in a 68,000 capacity football stadium. But right now, it makes me a little sad to be able to read “Sporting” on the TV in KC and I think that has to measure in as well.

/Removing undies from bunch/

by brokejumper on Jun 20, 2011 10:26 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, the "too big" argument is ridiculous

We sell twice as many tix for league games and have completely sold out all 68K for several friendlies and the 09 MLS Cup.

by Threeball on Jun 21, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Only in MLS

Can a large stadium be considered a bad thing.

by B-Lot tailgater on Jun 22, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

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